Please help, Serious In Law Trouble!

[funkyfarmerswife]

Well thank god there are some other mums out there with grandparent problems. My MIL at present is threatening to have a mental breakdown because she hasn't seen the kids over Christmas but that was due to an argument on Christmas Eve where she told me I had ruined my husbands relationship with his brother (I haven't) and I have 'hogged' him ever since we married and my father in law said I was ungrateful and didn't deserve the house they had given me and my husband! Many many problems with them over last 8 years basically due to the fact they continue to push BIL into our lives as he is on his own and they feel sorry for him. I cannot stand the guy, still attached to mother by umbillical cord and is spoilt to death. Told me once that I was a freeloader and that he'd come to our place whenever he wanted to as his parents bought it! Basically they are requesting that every birthday, party, christmas, sports day, school play, and special occassion, I invite them and their other son and basically put a show on to make them feel happy despite the fact that I hate the BIL. So now forever more they expect me to involve them in our special times with our kids (3) despite the fact that it will ruin it for me. My FIL once rang us up (from another fall out) to say that MIL was up all night fretting and pacing the room cos she hadn't seen the kids for 2 weeks and we had better let her see them as she was making herself ill or could top herself! Surely, I should not have to give in to them? BIL is jealous of us because we have a family, nice home etc and tries his hardest to wind me up. Basically, they are ultra controlling, don't always do what I ask i.e sweet giving, let them ride on back of tractors, take 4 year old in pool without armbands (despite me telling them not a good idea to take them swimming as hard work with 3 kids), gave eldest river water to drink cos she was thirsty which made her violently ill, spoilt my double christening by being rude as I didn't ask for her help to make food, GOD I could go on and on and on.Help me please with your suggestions as I am seriously considering hitting the bottle or divorcing my husband. Who by the way tries to talk to them but the saga returns to it's normal state quickly. Seriously fed up with it all!! Is it me or them being unreasonable?

Well, it's all just too tied up isn't it?

The farm, thus livlihood is rented from the ILS. Fracturing the relationship could result in the tenancy withdrawn thus loss of income.

Even selling the house might provoke the same result.

I really don't know.

It's the BIL that is the issue, yes? Moreso than the ILs.

I think I'd curtail any socialising with them TBH and go out - let your DH see his family but if they wind you up that much, then I just wouldnt be there.

With regards to sports day/carol service we have a two adult limit.

Thanks for your opinion loosylou. One christmas I went out of my home and sat in the dark in the field with my sheepdog and waited for them all to leave as it was so unbearable. I used to invite them for special occassions and it just caused me so much stress that I have started dreading all these times. Would you like it if your BIL called you a freeloader when all you have done is work your balls off to start up a farming business from scratch and have 3 kids all in the last 10 years? Our house was a wreck when we were given it and I have spent years making it into a lovely home buying second hand furniture and repairing it myself (so you all don't think I am too spoiled).

All I can say is you are obviously looking at it from a potential grandparents view and have never experiences anything like this yourself. There appear to be many other mums in similar wrangles with the in laws and I don't feel that I am selfish at all. I just want a happy life with my family and not be dictated to.

The problem seems to be the emotional black mail and the control they are trying to exert - that is what you need to deal with.

Yes it's usual to invite family to special occasions, however if these people are then emotional abusive and/or toxic it is horrendous.

Well, family occassions yes, but I'd guss some of the Ops children are at school. It's normal for the family parties to fall away by then in favour of school-friend based parties.

Right. I think you have to limit time. Eg birthday parties for families become 'special teas' - they get invited between 4 and 6 for present giving - or even better you go to theirs.....actually, yes, I'm a genius ...... arrange it so you go to theres then you can control the time spent. You must be able to have some domestic farming crisis that necessitates you to be home two hours later?

BTW - if any of them have keys, change the locks. But I guess you live in an area where doors are always open anyway.

*argh! theirs

You have various problems, firstly, you have a DH problem more than PILs, if he stands by and let's his wife be spoken to like that in her own home then he must think their feelings are more important than yours. He's not torn, he's chosing their side. Tell him that.

Long term, he has to decide, which relationship is more important to protect, the one with his parents or the one with his wife. If he picks you, then you need to distangle yourselves from them, this will need to be a 5 year plan at least, but if you are moving towards that, then all the better. Not being a farmer, not sure how easy it would be, but could you look at renting a different farm? This would mean you had a formal tenant/landlord relationship with the person you rent from rather than family issues. If you need to sell that house, well, if it's in your name, you're entitled to do that, and might make the next one be seen more as your home.

Your DH has to be the one to pull them up on the way they speak to you, if need be, telling them they are being rude and asking them to leave. He needs to stand there and say "It's not acceptable to come into my home and insult my wife." to his mother/father/brother. If he doesn't want to spend time with his brother, then he should say so.

You need to sort a mortgage out and pay them back for the house if you wish to take the moral highground and claim independence from the ILs.

Objectively speaking, you DO owe them. And bigtime. Even a knackered old house is still a house.

BTW - what about your family? Or does your DH's family take priority because they are physically closer? If you do have family, i'd be arranging now that next Christmas will be spent with them.

Also agree with going to their houses for time with DCs, as it means ending the visit is easier when you can just leave when you've had enough or they've been rude to you.

"He stood by and said nothing when I was called a freeloader and it hurt. He is quite quiet and doesn't like confrontation."

Bloody hell! If someone insulted me in front of my DH and he said nothing I would be furious. There is being quiet and there is being spineless. Unless you can show a united front I don't know how you will deal with this.

I do sympathise with you OP and in fact agree with troisgarcons' concept of arranged, set, chosen by you times.
i know you find it hard to talk to MIL. I think you should go over on your own, with a diary for the next three months, and a home baked cake (oh ok a bought one is fine.)
I think you should say to MIL, look, Ma, I need some help with the children and I wonder if we could fix some times?
She should be able to manage one on their own, I would hope (no swimming etc, just at home). so why not allocate her some sessions at her place with one or other of your dcs.
Then move on to the bdays, special days, etc, and start planning who will come to which, when. Get them on the calendar, now, and if you have to have nightmare bil, so be it. you are aiming to beat them with over kindness. Get b il to commit now to the dates.

Then once completed, NO OTHER DATES go on the calendar. I concur with the suggestion that their visits are limited (eg , specify 2 - 4 pm) and then you can have childrens friends, your friends etc after that.
Your tack has got to be you cannot change them, so you will have to change your own reaction to them before you lose it.
I would simply pretend I cannot hear anything bil says and if he says something nasty i would just ask him to repeat it, saying, nope, still can't hear you, till he gives up and stops. be very very annoying by being very very nice. attitude of poor you, bil, what a sad life you have. Think of him as a school bully and treat him as a poor sad man.
Good luck OP. Not at all an easy situation ....

You don't owe them, I disagree with people who say that. Just because they gave you a house it doesn't mean they should be able to have you by the balls! Stand firm with your husband, say how it is going to be. No more sarkiness from bil and the pil need to respect your rules with the children. If they splutter and go on again about all they have given you, don't feel bad, keep firm in your rules and treat them like the children they are - keep repeating your stance and distance yourself until they change - let them wail and splutter all they like!

Probably a minor point, but if your house was a wreck-such taht you have needed a mortgage?

TBH if someone gave me a house that I could just move into & decorate (don´t know if that applies), I couldn´t help but feel endebted to them.

I don´t know.

They sound bloody awful, & I hope if ever I was in a position to give someone a house I could do it without strings, but I really don´t know tbh...

Thanks diddl, see your point but house was basically uninhabitable but we just got on with it for 5 years and were very cold! Used all our money to fund house repairs and farm repairs - it too was close to dereliction. I think that if you give something then you should do so willingly with no strings like you say but I guess we are not all the same. I have never been ungrateful for the house gift and feel lucky to live here. I agree that there is probably no really easy solution. I have to say that the south of france looks like a very good farming area! Ha Ha

Thanks for all your advice and comments. Feel better knowing I have some strong advice to work on. Maybe just a little glass of red though may be called for!

You either need to be very firm and make sure DH puts his foot down or consider selling the house and finding new land to farm, very difficult I'm sure. You will always be indebted to them as long as you are in that house unfortunately and I doubt they will get better.

I saw a friend go through something similar when her DHs mum handed him his inheritance early because she sold her mortgage free home to chase some bloke. It all went pear shaped and she reappears with them to live as 'it is her money, her son and therefore her right' more than my friends to be in the house. They didn't have kids at that point which was lucky as she was a nightmare, it destroyed them and they divorced.

You are a grown woman, it is your choice how you approach this relationship, I think you need to speak to your DH once and for all or it will drive you loopy!

Hello Funky Farmers Wife.
Have farming friends myself and your PILS are very typical!
Please read Joanna Trollope's : Next Of Kin. The whole situation will become cristal clear!

You poor thing. I agree with other posters though, discuss terms and conditions with your husband and make him take part in discussions with them. What would they say if you said you would rather give them the house back and move rather than pander to their every whim as that is what you will do if they don't stop setting conditions for you - when do your parents get a look in?

It all sounds a bit melodramatic. MIL pacing all night, you in a field with your dog, the BIL ranting at you. Everyone needs to grow up. The only one you can work on is yourself though. Maintain an adult level of interaction with them.

Do not get involved in the melodrama any longer. Tell your DH waht you expect in terms of support (especially when insulted) and discuss visiting rights for PIL and BIL to DC. Agree what you both want - they see DGC once a week with DH supervising or something, and stick to it.

PIL will ignore your requests re sweets and make unwise decisions. But if there are saftey concerns (drinking river water and dangerous driving) you have the right as an adult to say No and insist on supervision if you are ignored.

I think you need to have a long chat with your DH - get him to read this thread?
I am a MiL so I do see their side a bit. I also see yours. I think you've all become entrenched in a circle of resistence to each other and heel-digging-in and someone's got to break it.

I do think in-laws should be invited to family celebrations. Having said that, if they cross the line as your BiL has then your DH has to speak to him. He has to be told that he is welcome as long as he behaves. If he crosses the line, if he is rude, then he won't be allowed back without an apology.
Same goes for PiL if they are rude.
But if you limit the number of times and the lengths of the visits (and make some of them at their house) and try and keep calm - with your DH standing up for you it may improve.

Baby steps...

(How old are the DCs btw? Does this affect them?)

I don't think it's unusual for grandparents and an uncle to want to be part of birthdays, christmas etc.

I also think it's a bit rich to call your BIL spoilt when you live a house your PIL bought.

Is it just me who reads these types of threads wondering what the other side of the story would be?

Didn't you post lady year about your inlaws coming into your house unannounced at any time they felt like it? Not much has changed has it?!

It's a very difficult situation when it's a family farm and you're living on the land/working for/with in-laws.

Try to step back and let your DH deal with them. Just do hatches, matches, despatches and once a year at Christmas, plus the kids birthdays for a couple of hours.

Otherwise, let your DH deal with it.

I think that the thing is that if they were "difficult" before, this has perhaps made them worse.

But BIL isn´t your problem, is he?

I mean even if you liked him you perhaps wouldn´t want him with you all the time-especially if your husband doesn´t get on all that well/isn´t that bothered.

The trouble is, how can you tell ILs that you don´t like their son?

Seeing their GC at Christmas & on bdays doesn´t seem unreasonable tbh-but you need to set boundaries.

It´s one of the problems of all living so close.

Hi there, Rdoo, do you really think that its normal for an uncle to be part of everything you do with your kids. He even used to come on holiday with us (his mother invited him and themselves too) and this is what lead to the problems. My MIL is so obsessed with him joining in that she cannot see what problems it is causing in our family. I don't like being called a freeloader (which i am most emphatically not).

For the record, my BIL is spoilt cos he is off having fun and his mother is up at the farm feeding his animals for him and basically giving him a free rein to do other hobby things whilst she and FIL are working their nuts off to run his farm for them when they should be retired. Entirely their own decision I know but nonetheless. This year they even had to leave their farmhouse and buy another house so that he could have it to himself. He doesn't have a girlfriend or wife. NB He still gets her to do his washing/cleaning/farmwork/paperwork etc. So he is really very spoilt.

I never asked for the house, they just gave it and I think they should do so willingly and with no emotional strings attached. If they feel like this then they should never have given it in the first place. NB I have never been ungrateful.

I am very honest and there is no other side of the story. This is how weird my PILS are:- when my eldest daughter had her hair cut in a new style my MIL went nuts with my FIL for not telling her about it. I think they have very empty nest sydrome and are trying to make our lives into their lives.

To Runningwilde - This is the first time I have posted on mumsnet so there must be some other poor woman out there with similar problems - Good Luck.

Firstly.... BIG HUG!!!!!!!!!!!
What a stressful situation - and I bet you feel that you can't get away from it.

You have two seperate issues here - BIL and his scary attitude and the PIL's!

You have got to speak to your hubby about this hon, and he needs to be on your side about this. How dare your BIL speaks to you like that.... especially the 'i can come here whenever I like'! That frightens and alarms me the most!!!!! It has got to come from your hubby... not you. Stand back and get your hubby to speak to his brother... he really needs bringing back into the real world!!! You needs to protect you about this and stand side by side with this... BIL needs to see you and hubby united on this subject.. brother subject!

Right! Once he's sorted and brought down a few pegs two... and understands the pecking order... ie you at the top!!!!

The, the PIL's!!!

I think you should treat them differently to the BIL.... try the softly softly approach.

I think that they should all come to the family celebrations, and I don't think that's unreasonable of them to request that... (just wish they found a better and nicer way to communicate with you)!
They seem very desperate people.. and I actually feel sorry for them hon. (I am sooooooo on your side though!!!!)

From experience..... THEY WILL NEVER EVER CHANGE - AND WILL MOST LIKELY GET WORSE THE OLDER THEY GET!!!!!

YOU have got to change... in how you see them and in how you react to them.

See them for who they are.... old, past it, losing grip, losing control, desperate to be part of their grandkids' lives... so desperate!

See them differently... and pity them....

Yes, they are behaving terribly, and lashing out at you... as they (wrongly) see you as the cause of their problems.... that is so not true.... and you know it's not true and anyone who knows you and loves you, will know that that's not true.... it is THEIR problem... THEIR insecurity! Pity them for that.... so sad....it is their fault you are all in this situation....they are so destructive, but oh so desperate and are going about it in such a bad way... alienating you, pushing you away and lashing out at you. But, it's obvious that that is all they know to do... pity that, that's so sad.

I probably sound a lunatic! and that i'm going on about them... but, try this way... you never know.. it might work and you come to some kind of understanding... and some kind of tolerance on both sides.

Both PIL and you are very very hurt (you more justifyably though) - and i think that if hubby goes wading in and laying the law (in his way) - that might make it worse.. i don't know.

Get hubby to wade in with BIL.. he is an arsehole! And, even though PIL are arses too... i think try this approach... see how it works for you.

You don't want an all out world war 3 - with people majorly feuding and you kids to see it...

I have experience with this - but not with PIL.. with my adoptive family and siblings.... and I understand that i cannot change them.. i can only change me and how i process their actions/words... and change how i react to it.

What do you think?
xx

I think what your PIL does for your brother in law is irrelevant, really none of your business. Although your PIL do sound like they interfere but on your initial post you simply stated they wanted to be involved in special occasions , birthdays, Christmas etc which isn't unusual.

You ask is not normal for an uncle to be part of everything to do with the kids, not everything no, but the examples you've given are not unusual.

I assume you felt the same way about your BIL before he called you a freeholder and I would guess he objected to you feeling he was spoilt while you live in a house his parents bought.