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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To say NO! to the backyard bungalow builder's latest application?

189 replies

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 06/01/2012 18:31

Got a letter from planning today.

Neigbours finally got round to applying for planning for the humoungous fence they put up in the summer.

It is there to stop us seeing what is going on in the gym house they builit in their small urban back garden.

The fence is ugly and very tall. It is attached to the fence that we already have which is the regulation height so its is totally unecessary (apart from to act as a screen).

I dont like it, it impinges on my garden and my neighbours have behaved like total bastards over the bungalow that they should never have built.

What do I say in response to the letter. Are any of my lovely planning people around to advise on the wording?

If people are not familiar with the bungalow saga they can see pics in my profile.

OP posts:
SuePurblybilt · 08/01/2012 09:40

MissM rocks mightily. Brilliant. Smile

Can you also cobble a court case (a la Judge Judy) for death of plants, one summer spent indoors, lack of enjoyment and harassment? That'd be fun.

I also like the Lupin wallpaper muchly btw.

MissMarjoribanks · 08/01/2012 10:15

I agree we need to see the documents on the web before it goes as there may be statements in there you want to refute.

After sleeping on it I also think it needs more about your general enjoyment of your garden, sitting out, etc rather than just the plants which I can work on.

Jins - be my guest to make any alterations or additions you want.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 08/01/2012 10:22

would it be worth mentioning that just prior to them starting building we had spent a lot of money adapting the garden for our DS with ASD to use?
That we tend to use our garden a lot due to DS's disablity and having lots of kids?
Now the character of the garden has changed (and DS really hates that fence, it makes him feel cut off).

I know it should be too emotional and has to be relevant.

OP posts:
befuzzled · 08/01/2012 10:54

Nothing helpful to add, just shocked that this is still ongoing! I remember your first thread and had just assumed that the whole structure had been pulled down by now! I can't believe your neighbours have got away with this. I know you've got experts on te case. I am just wondering, can you still see into their garden from upstairs? Should you be filming comings and goings or keeping a diary, esp at night, as presumably they will want to be occupying this "gym" now and I think you should try and get them done on the usage front, as the planners have suggested. I would make it my mission personally. Hope the tide turns for you this year x

Jins · 08/01/2012 16:11

I'd definitely mention it as although it's a personal circumstance it's very relevant. Just remember that whatever you send in goes on the public register

TalkinPeace2 · 08/01/2012 16:46

experts :
is there any, ANY, ANY way to put the fence and "gym" onto the enforcement officer's watch list?
I deal with Parish Councils but it is well known that certain addresses are on the District Council list of 'check every time you drive past'

  • and although the offending building is out the back, councils are entitled to data mine on things like benefits, utilities, and soon experian data like shopping deliveries ...

if ANYBODY needs that level of checking its MrsDeV

Jins · 08/01/2012 16:51

I would think its on the watch list. It would have been on the list at the authority I used to work at. No way of finding out though.

We watched an 'agricultural building' for years. Got them in the end Wink

RabidEchidna · 08/01/2012 16:54

Just looked at your photos and bloody hell what are they building???
Hope you can get advice and maybe even stop them

Jins · 08/01/2012 16:56

I won't be making changes to MissM's letter but I've got a few suggestions. Will post later when I can get on my pc. DH has been on it most of the afternoon. Hope my virus checker is up to date Confused

MissMarjoribanks · 08/01/2012 17:07

Yes, every authority I have ever worked for has had a 'watch list'. This will be on your Council's. Some people specialise in not giving a stuff about planning regulations and they're well known to officers.

The advantage of the hilly nature of the place I work now is that you can spot misdemeanours from the other side of the valley. Often they have no idea that unauthorised works are visible from several miles away! Grin

Jins · 08/01/2012 17:56

My suggested additions are in bold. Feel free to discard or adopt them :)

Dear Mr/Mrs Case Officer,

Re: Planning application ref. xxxx at [your neighbour's address]

I am writing to object in the strongest possible terms to the planning application for the erection of a 2.3m fence at [your neighbour's address]. The fence has already been erected and consequently this is a retrospective application.

I believe the proposal to be contrary to your adopted and emerging development plan policies. I note that the adopted Unitary Development Plan for [your Council] has policies which are intended to protect neighbouring properties from the adverse impact of householder developments. In particular, Policy BHE3 states: 'The Council will seek to ensure that proposals do not harm the local environment or the amenity of neighbouring occupiers. Permission will be granted for development if it...provides a satisfactory level of sunlight, daylight, privacy and outlook for occupiers of existing and adjoining properties'.

I also note that the Development Management policies in your emerging Local Development Framework have been consulted on. Policy DM4 reiterates the requirement to not adversely impact on the outlook, sunlight or daylight enjoyed by neighbouring properties.

As the fence is already in situ it is possible for me to establish the precise impact it has on my property. This is, without doubt, an adverse impact.

Firstly, it is oppressive. When I stand in the garden it is clearly taller than it needs to be in order to ensure a suitable level of privacy. To put the development in context it is approaching the recommended height of 2.4m for security fencing in high risk developments. It is overbearing, as it extends the full length of my garden, and is almost a metre above my head height. There is no relief from it. Wherever I look along that boundary, it is there. It also reduces my outlook from the garden. Although I do not wish to overlook neighbours' gardens, the fence reduces the general perception of spacious, suburban back gardens surrounding me, which I previously enjoyed. The skyline has been raised and I feel more enclosed.

Secondly, it reduces the amount of daylight and sunlight I enjoy. The fence is on the south western boundary of my property. This is also the direction from which I receive the most sun as not only does the sun come from that direction in the early afternoon, but also it is the greatest distance from other houses which might overshadow my property. My garden is of a reasonable size, but it is narrow. As such, the additional height to the fencing has a proportionately greater impact than on a wider plot. It overshadows my plants which need sunlight to grow. As the fence extends the length of the garden I have nowhere to move them to where they might get the sunlight they need. My plants are integral to the enjoyment of my garden.

I appreciate that the fall back position is the erection of a 2.0m fence, as permitted development under Schedule 2, Part 2 of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) Order 1995. Nevertheless, it is clear to me that it is the additional 300mm above the permitted development limit which leads to the adverse impact outlined above.

There is a reason that the long standing permitted development rights for fences are 2.0m; because this is considered to be a sufficient height to maintain privacy whilst not impinging on neighbours' amenity. 2.0m is generally accepted as being a suitable height and scale for domestic situations. A height of 2.3m results in a fence of a scale that is inappropriate in a residential area. I understand that 2.0m is not a limit of acceptability and that fences above this height simply require planning permission. It is not an indication that planning permission will be refused. However, the rationale behind the requirement for planning permission is that the impact of the proposal can be properly considered. Given the points I have made above I consider that the fence has an adverse impact and therefore should not be granted planning permission.

The precedent this development will set is also of concern. If my neighbour is able to construct a 2.3m fence, then I should also be able to. So should the neighbour on the other side, and so on. As a consequence, the whole street would suffer from a loss of amenity as I have. This cannot be acceptable.

The 2.3m fence has an adverse impact on my amenity. Consequently, in light of your adopted development plan policies which are intended to protect the amenity of neighbouring properties from the adverse impacts of development, the application should be refused.

I would ask that when you carry out your site inspection as part of the determination of this application that you visit my property to assess the impact from my garden. I would appreciate you taking and recording measurements of the fence at various locations at my boundary and making a photographic record to retain on file. Please contact me to arrange a suitable time

I thank you for your attention in this matter.

Yours sincerely,

Mrs DeVere

Jins · 08/01/2012 17:58

Oooh I remember that MissM. I had a few brilliant vantage points. (I used to carry out most of my own monitoring and enforcement as it was a bit technical)

I was stuffed when they got a highly recognisable pool car and insisted that we all wore logo'd Hi Vis on site visits for our own safety Confused

Sandalwood · 08/01/2012 18:56

Terrific. I really love this bit: "As the fence is already in situ it is possible for me to establish the precise impact it has on my property"

Good luck.

MissMarjoribanks · 08/01/2012 19:30

Jins suggestions are good, I'd keep 'em.

I would also bang in the stuff about you spending money on your garden and your personal circumstances. The thing to remember though is that planning works for the public interest, not the private interest so mainly keep it to things that would impact any family who lived there, regardless of their circumstances.

But do remember it will be a public document, probably published on the Council's website so don't put anything in there you wouldn't want made public.

gallicgreetings · 08/01/2012 19:34

In relation to the "bungalow", if you do believe someone has moved in as a permanent residence, in addition to reporting it to planning, mention it to the council tax office. If they bring it into banding, your neighbour (or the resident if they can ascertain the name) will get a lovely council tax bill.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 09/01/2012 12:35

I got a photo this morning that shows the lights on in the living room of the bungalow at just past 7am.
I will easily get one tonight showing the lights on at past 10-11pm

How can anyone think the bungalow is not occupied?

OP posts:
MmeLindor. · 09/01/2012 12:46

oh, just noticed this.

Great letter, loved the security fence comment.

Keep taking photos at all hours of the day. No way is that bungalow not occupied.

Jins · 09/01/2012 12:49

Definitely take photos.

Do you have any photos of the garden before the fence went up? They can be useful.

I'm sure that they think it probably is occupied but resources being what they are... If this was a Border Agency issue I'm sure there would have been a stakeout but planning departments don't have the same resources :(

RealLifeIsForWimps · 09/01/2012 12:50

OMG. That bungalow takes the piss like nothing I have ever seen in my long and observant life. I would just torch the fence Grin

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 09/01/2012 16:45

ROFL @ Reallife for lots of reasons Grin

OP posts:
FannyFifer · 09/01/2012 17:02

I followed your "bungalow" thread, have nothing useful to add except a few swear words about your absolute fucking wankers of next door neighbours!
Good luck.

FannyFifer · 09/01/2012 17:03

Can you not contact immigration as I heard that they have a lot of illegal immigrants living in the bungalow. Wink

droves · 09/01/2012 17:24

Just had a look at your photos op , your kids are so cute .

But that ventilation pipe thingy got my attention.

Wouldn't it be a shame if it suddenly and unexpectedly was filled with old birds nest and blocked? ...oh dear Rhodes damn sparrows will roost anywhere !

Grin.

droves · 09/01/2012 17:25

Rhodes ? Wtf ?.. Those .

GoingForGoalWeight · 09/01/2012 17:32

OMG I've just looked at your profile.

Diabolicle cheek, eyesore and mess grrrrrr

Breaking the rules surely.
What about the neighbours on the other side? Have you approacede them? What do they say?

Ps, your children are soo cute :) My son is mixed raced too :)