my bfs other baby mommy

[Nicc21]

Please does it make me a bad person because i dont want mine and my boyfriends hard earned money to go to a woman that has kids for fun and borderline neglects her children???

MJ you don't have to keep explaining yourself to me

and I still think you are projecting

AF I wasn't explaining, I was politely disagreeing :).

And I am projecting, having had every accusation thrown at this RP thrown at myself - and knowing that I'm not lying - of course my personal experiences are being brought to bear - as are those of about 99% of other posters on this thread.

I think you are ignoring wider structural issues of sexism MJ and ignoring the fact that if you split, your DH would be richer than you because he has benefited from your free labour.

Calling it what it is, does not denigrate it.

Childcare is labour. The fact that it is done with love, doesn't change that. Lots of labour is done with nlove - acting, writing, teaching, etc., but we still pay for it. Free childcare and domestic labour, enables the person who is not doing it, to forge ahead in their career and amass money and status at the expense of the person who is doing it (unless that person is the nanny/ housekeeper who is paid properly for the task, of course). We simply have to change the set up of society, so that women, men and children are not continually disadvantaged by this mad, unequal distribution of money and labour.

No, you can think how you like. If it was me I wouldn't like it either. Unfortunately it is out of your hands. If you cannot accept the situation you're gonna have to find another fella. But in all honesty. No, it's not wrong to think that way. You just have to keep those thoughts under careful wraps....

We are politely disagreeing with each other, MJ

basil I was a single parent for 5 years prior to DH - I had a damn sight more money then than I do now. So I do have experience of both sides of the fence.

I know it's because society is changing, and also in my opinion, like attracts like, so our friends are mostly similar to us, but free labour??? To look after our DCs, me getting the wrong end of the bargain.

Dh woke up, went to work at 6.30, I got up, at 9.00 - bf dd as I couldn't be bothered to get breakfast, we watched a bit of TV in bed, Then I mumsnetted while they played - sticking 2 sachets of oats so simple in the micro.

Sorry, how exactly is that free labour??

Look if you want to denigrate the work you do MJ, go ahead.

I won't be joining you.

MJ, your H would be unable to go to work if you weren't providing child care

and very lovely child care it is too...and wonderful mummycare etc etc

that's what families are all about, I totally agree, but we must not lose sight of the wider issues

he would have to pay someone rather a lot of money to do what you do, or give up work

there is no getting away from that

And basil I earn 2/3 rds of DHs take home pay, for 2 days a week, (18.5 hours) while he is on 24 7 call out, 364 days a year and one week in 5 works 13 days solid and on average does a 45 hour week. And this after 3 DCs.

Cash rich, time poor - doesn't seem like such a great deal to me.

And Basil - I actually find it very sad that you think I (or dh actually) are degenerating the "work" I do - I am extremely aware of how important raising our DCs is - it's the most important thing in our lives - what I am not prepared to do is degenerate the work DH does - both roles have equal value.

I am extremely fortunate with Dh (I haven't always been) I know that - but he is not exceptional in my social circle.

And dh would not have to pay someone a lot of money to do what I do - we both would.

MJ if you and your DH want to change your domestic and childcare arrangements, you can. We all have choices.

But tbh I don't really understand why this thread has become about your domestic set up. You appear to be arguing that you'd be happy to give your DH 50 50 childcare if you split and if that suits you great - but just because something works for you, that doesn't mean you should universalise it. I personally think my domestic set up is fuckign great - part time and no man around, enough money to get by and total freedom; but because it works for me, doesn't mena I think it should be public policy to promote it, I realise it wouldn't suit a lot of people.

NO

Because you put forward the argument that if one person has provided the majority of childcare - a 50/50 split wouldn't be appropriate.

And no - in the current economic climate (ie DHs boss telling henwas lucky to have a job and there being very little alternative work here) no we couldn't change our domestic set up.

It's my personal opinion (working in the public sector) the current climate is causing the biggest set backs to feminism that the last few decades have seen.

There are massive set backs infamily friendly work and policies. The biggest impact of this is on women with child care or other caring issues.

You asked me how the childcare you do is free labour MJ.

You implied that it's a piece of piss, just oputting some oatstuff in the microwave or somthing.

As if that's what childcare is every day.

You came across as denigrating your work.

But I'm sure you didn't mean to, of course you think it's important, I guess we all talk down our work/ parenting/ stuff that's importnat to us occasionally without meaning it

But it's not "free" - if I had given up work completely (and I had to threaten to resign before I could get ff hours) then I would have had equal access to the family pot.

DHs salary would have been "ours"?

Yes, as long as you are together MJ.

His pension contributions wouldn't have been though.

And you would have given up your career and would find it very hard to get back on that ladder again.

You know this. Why are we discussing it here?

Tbf basil we have 3 teens as well - believe when I say - looking after the minimes is easy compared to them .

A newborn and a toddler are a walk in the park compared to the older ones!!

Don't know - it just went on a tangent (I top up my pension btw).

Very wise. But unfortunately lots of women don't.

That's why poverty is a gender issue. Women are much more likely to be poor than men in old age. And that's because the work they do bringing up children and supporting their partner's career, is not recognised and paid for (with pension contributions for example).

And that's a problem IMO. One that we need as a society to resolve, unless we're content to see women continue to be shafted as they prop up society with their free labour. You and I have set ups which suit us and which we've chosen and are happy with and we're doing all the right things to ensure that our interests are protected from the worst consequences of our choices in old age (topping up pensions etc.) But just because I'm all right Jack, I still want other women to be looked after.

But you're right, we're on a terrible tangent here...

Basil I grew sensitible the very hard way.

It just I think the answer lies in valuing both roles, not under valuing one or the other.

I don't disagree with you MJ.

Both roles are valuable.

Unfortunately, the pension, the status and the wage only come with one of them.

So the rest of society doesn't agree with us.

I think some people are deluded that if you're on benefits you get all your rent paid. it doesn't the only pay a certain amount usually what they deem a fair rent. My rent in my old house was £595 pcm I was working there but if I was n't they would have only paid £450 of it I would have had to pay the rest out of my income support/jsa whatever benefit I was on.

My rent in this house is £450 pcm I have to pay £5 a week towards my rent.

Obviously I don't struggle to pay that but imagine if I lived in my other house!!!

When I knew I was being made redundant was when I decided to move to the other side of the country where house prices are cheaper. I dread to think where I would be at now if I still lived there.

I don't have to pay anything towards my rent. At my first place I had to pay £2.92 (IIRC) a week but that was because heating and hot water was part of my rent. It depends on how much your rent is and your landlord.

I know people who are topping up their rent by £30 per week, so that they can bring their children up in a half-decent area.