Obese inlaws - health issues. Frustrated and sad. And a bit angry. Probably unreasonably so.

[shagmundfreud]

Long and a bit ranty. Sorry. Need to get it off my chest.

The family I married into has had problems with obesity since I've known them (17 years) but it's only in the past 10 that the chickens have started to come home to roost. As thread title says, I'm feeling sad and angry about the situation, but also worried at how it may affect my immediate family, because dd (12) is now beginning to develop a weight problem as well. Sorry for the length of this - I've been chewing this issue over during Christmas and really want to unload.

MIL - morbidly obese pretty much her whole adult life. She now has type 2 diabetes and heart problems. And arthritis. And has never fully recovered from a botched hernia operation a few years ago which was complicated by her obesity.

FIL also morbidly obese. He had a stroke a few years back while MIL was recovering from her botched surgery and was still in hospital. At 79 he weighs about 18 stone and is only barely mobile. He's incontinent and starting to become senile.

SIL morbidly obese and hypertensive. She's 50 and has just been told she will be diabetic in 2 years time. Her pancreas isn't working well at the moment but she's not yet developed diabetes proper.

BIL is obese and a smoker. He's had to retire after having a heart attack at 48.

Their youngest dc is 12 and is obese.

All in laws are lovely, lovely people, and morbidly obese SIL in particular is a beautiful person inside and out. I really love her very much.

But I've started to feel angry and intensely frustrated at how intelligent people - because not one of them is stupid - can be so fatalistic about their health and not see what's staring them in the face: that they eat way, way, way too much, and it's ruining their lives.

Family parties involve obscene amount of food, whatever the time of year. A casual family barbecue will involve every conceivable type of meat: ribs, burgers, chicken, steak, sausages. It's expected that all the adults present will eat a couple of burgers, a couple of hot dogs, some chicken, a massive portion of lasagna, some steak, salads, garlic bread. And the children too. And at least three types of pudding. Oh, and lashings and lashings of full-fat coke, which is poured for the children into massive plastic cups. Last time DH invited the family over I asked him whether it made sense to cater for them in this way - we're either encouraging ridiculous waste (which we don't approve of and can't afford) or ridiculous overeating.

Obese SIL talks about being a bit 'naughty' and helps herself to two or three heaped tablespoons of double cream on her (massive portion of) pudding. Then has another portion afterwards, with a little tinkle of conspiratorial laughter. And we all play along. When she came back from her recent set of blood tests she told me that the nurse had said the fact that she was going to develop diabetes had nothing to do with her weight. That she'd develop it even if she was (SIL's words) 'a twiglet', because there's a family propensity towards diabetes (other SIL has had type 1 diabetes since childhood). I appreciate that there is SOME truth that she is more likely to get diabetes but surely, surely, the fact that's she's morbidly obese is an aggravating factor?

A couple of weeks ago I cracked and said to SIL that she needed to do something to protect her health, and told her I was worried about her. We discussed using internet tools like my fitness pal to log her food intake. I deliberately mentioned it because I know that the problem isn't generally that my SIL eats junk food. Actually she's an amazing cook and creates beautiful, usually healthy food. Just way, way, way too much of it. And she eats too much. I know this because I've had so many meals with her over the years. I can't tell you how many times I've had to ask her to take food off my children's plates when we've eaten at her house and she's been serving. Her response to me suggesting measuring and logging her food intake was 'oh I really couldn't be bothered with doing that - I'm just too busy'. And then in the next breath talk in a fairly non-committal way about having to do something about her weight.

It makes me want to scream.

They've done all the plans, joined all the clubs, and failed to lose weight. Or lost it and put it straight back on. Her and MIL join together, and then conspire to cheat together. They undermine each other's attempts to lose weight, and BIL is constantly sabotaging SIL's efforts too. They comfort themselves by convincing themselves that actually they eat quite healthily, and that SIL is fitter than a lot of slimmer women because she walks to work every day (about a couple of miles over the course of the day - but she doesn't do speed). And that they could be hit by a bus anyway, and that their health problems are genetic, and .... you name it. Excuses, justification, trivialising the issue day in and day out.

Also watching MIL serving absolutely MASSIVE portions to my completely sedentary 18 stone FIL. And when I say massive - I mean a big plate with food piled up to the height of about 4 inches and falling off the edge of the plate. Huge curries, corned beef hash, stews..... The sort of plate of food any normal person would serve up to a 21 year old man at the end of a day of working down a mine or building a house. I mean - this is a woman who was a nurse. And she's his carer for goodness sake. I don't think she takes any responsibility for his health problems, which are immense and are both caused and complicated by obesity, as are hers.

Anyway, so now dd is showing signs of over-eating. She's JUST within the normal BMI for her age, but is at the top end of it and edging towards being overweight. She has muffin tops, big thighs and is starting to carry a lot more weight than is healthy around her middle. She doesn't have a big frame. I can't bear the thought of a fat future for her, with all the possible health problems that can go with it, especially in a family with a tendency towards diabetes and hypertension. I try so hard to be sensible about portion sizes and serve healthy food, but she just eats and eats and eats. When she's bored. When she's tired. Because she wants to. I'm starting to suspect she see's overweight as being normal and nothing to worry about, despite the horrible fall-out she sees around her.

Should add - I'm a bit overweight myself and am trying hard to address this issue, with some success. This has happened in the last few years as I'd always been a skinny before developing thyroid problems at 43 (I'm 45 now). But I take my health and DH's health seriously and will do everything I can to stay as well as possible for as long as possible, for the sake of my children and the rest of my family, as well as for myself.

Anyway, if you've got this far, well done. . Am I being unreasonable to have such strong feelings about this issue. Or should I keep my big nose out of my inlaws eating habits?

I might be getting this wrong but your DD sounds like a pre-teen sort of 12 rather than a young 12? At that age I was definitely more influenced by my friends than my parents. I don't think I would have wanted to join an exercise class with my mum but I did go to self-defence/aerobics classes with friends. Does she have any friends you could persuade to do a class with her?

I also think that getting exercise doing day to day activities is as good, or better, than doing classes. If you drive her to things can you get her to walk or cycle instead?

Oh man... Shagmundfreud... your routine sounds healthier than mine. I give mine biscuits after school with a glass of milk as part of their daily snack.

By 'crap' I mean take-aways, chips, greasy food, banoffee pie.....

Making me feel hungry. I will resist the urge to go to the fridge for the last bit of trifle left over from yesterday full of sherry.

Imp - my dd is a cross between Vicki Pollard and Harry Enfield's Kevin at the moment...

Mumofmolly - I really dislike takeaways and pre-prepared foods. Luckily for me. DD's partial to the odd chip though....

Ah ha ha ha ha! I shouldn't laugh, but that's very funny. Oh, lets wait for the posts saying you are an evil and unkind mum saying such horrible things about your daughter. We can laugh, because we know you love her.

OP I feel for you. I have nothing very useful to offer, but have had all the same worries about my mum who is obese. I'm desperately worried about it and feel as though I've tried all the strategies to deal with it (positive reinforcement, suggesting we go to WW together, getting angry, apologising, cooking for her etc etc.)

I agree with PPs that it is impossible for you to control your in laws and just have to focus on your daughter. Nothing really to add, but just wanted to send sympathy.

As I said shagmundfreud, I'm not worrying about it as he's a dead ringer for his older brother, who is twenty and extremely skinny and he was exactly the same when he was his age. I've two other sons who are and always have been skinny. It's honestly not eating badly, I cook proper meals every day and he doesn't snack much between, fruit if anything at all. I don't buy biccies and stuff cos I'd eat them.

You clearly know your daughter, I hope she'll take heed of you eventually.

Can I ask, (so I can get an idea of the scale of the problem here) what you currently estimate your DD and DH weight/bmi/clothes size to be, and also that of your in-laws? You have mentioned that FIL is 18 stone, but you haven't said anything about the others apart from that they are 'morbidly obese'.

Also, I think it's not really appropriate to be looking to blame your in-laws for your daughter's burgeoning weight problem, (unless you are begrudgingly acknowledging that there may be a genetic factor) as the only people who put food on her plate or in her mouth on a daily basis is you, and her! And if she has grown up being statisfied by your apparently small but adequate portion sizes then she should be capable of recognising that theirs are too large, and recognising when she is full. At least that is what the nutritionists and dieticians would have you believe - good habits start in childhood, and set patterns for life.

However, you have my sympathy as I have a 12 year old who (is not seriously obese, but) way, way to chubby. It just happened out of the blue when he was about 9, and it has got worse year on year. We kept waiting for it to rectify itself, thinking it would be a temporary growth spurt outwards, with a corresponding growth spurt upwards - but no. He is just fat!

And I know how hard it is to have complete control over what children eat once they are old enough to buy/make food for themselves, or to eat secretly and argue with you over every meal. (my older two DCs are both very skinny BTW, and it is very hard for DS3 to watch them stuffing crisps and chocolate and fast food endlessly and not putting on any weight.)

And most children who are overweight will do anything to avoid sport, especially at school, because they find it hard, and do not get picked for teams etc, which is humiliating, so they reject physical activity as a way of having fun. And frankly, it really ISN'T fun for them - not everyone thinks that running around after a ball is thrilling and enjoyable stuff - I find almost all sport and exercise unutterably dull, and always have, and I've never had a serious weight problem, only a minor one, relatively speaking. One of my kids (DC2) is sporty and active (and thin) - the other two hate it, and have the enthusiasm and activity levels of slugs. DC3 is fat, but DC1 has the lean, toned body of Tarzan, so there is not always logic to this. Annoyingly. And the skinniest person I know eats like a horse and complains that she cannot put on weight (I've seen her put away bigger dinners than I could, and she's build like a pre-adolescent sparrow whereas I have fluctuated from a 12 to a 16 thoughout my adult life) and she does no exercise whatsoever, but she is one of those people who is full of 'nervous energy' and a bit hyper. Her doctor told her she was 'lucky to be naturally slim and to be able to eat what she wanted' and to go away and stop worrying about it.

Fellatio, SIL is a size 22. MIL a size 18 (she has lost SOME weight through being too ill to eat. She used to be much, much bigger).

I don't 'blame' inlaws in the sense that they are doing anything to make dd fat. Only that being part of a fat family, where there is a culture of over eating is not helpful.

Re: some people being naturally thin - this is an interesting one. My understanding is that thin people can and do sometimes appear to eat a lot, but that actually they adjust their calorie intake naturally and unthinkingly over the space of days and weeks, so that overall they don't actually eat that much. That was certainly true of me when I was a slim (which was most of my life). I looked like I was eating masses of food - crisps, sweets, etc, but I could also go without eating, or eat small meals.

"It's honestly not eating badly, I cook proper meals every day and he doesn't snack much between, fruit if anything at all. I don't buy biccies and stuff cos I'd eat them."

With respect though - some children DON'T lose weight, even if their siblings do. There are plenty of families with one fat adolescent.

I would worry. My other SIL had three very overweight children. One has developed an eating disorder at the age of 17 and become very thin, one has lost most of the weight he's carried all his life by suddenly growing very tall and starting to play competitive rugby at 15, and one is still very, very fat. I worry about what will happen to them in adult life, once they get past the massive growth spurt of adolescence (which does thin a lot of them out), and settle into a sedentary adult lifestyle. Those children who have grown up thinking that overeating is 'ok' and a coping strategy for when they're bored or tired, or just feeling a bit greedy, will struggle....

We have just spent some time away with friends. They have 2 DCs one boy and one girl. They both eat reasonably healthy and the boy can pack away main courses like I have never seen and is as thin as a whippet, the girl is well padded and appears to like sweet things more than her brother, but is not allowed to eat very much of them. Therefore it is perfectly possible for children to be at the top and bottom of the BMI scale even though they follow roughly the same diet.

Someone had a good suggestion earlier in the thread, talk to your daughter about the predisposition to being overweight in your family and the health issues this can cause. Use the examples of your SIL and MIL ask your daughter if she thinks they are making good food choices and what strategies they could use to eat less.

I always believed that thin people had better metabolisms until I read some of the threads on here. I think that a very small percentage of the population say < 10% do have that rare ability to eat what they want without putting on weight, but for everyone else its either a conscious or unconscious decision about how much to eat at each sitting and why they are eating. I found the Paul McKenna book and CD I can make you thin to be very helpful as it emphasises things that should be obvious such as chewing slowly, only eating when you are hungry and stopping when you are full. Many of us are out of touch with our eating and don't recognise these cues.

Also can you get exercise to be a part of your daughters life. As an adolescant I hated family walks or anything that I felt was a ploy to get me to exercise. I did however like to be able to cycle to my friends, so if she doesn't have a bicycle now could be the time for her to get one and encourage some independance so she can cycle to her friends.

I was a fat teen and am now ( christmas ravages and peri menopausal weight gain aside a reasonably sized adult. It requires conscious portion control and as an adult I discovered that I enjoyed non-competitive sport so when single I went to the gym a lot, and over the last couple of years have rediscovered distance running. Maybe you could both sign up for the 5k race for life?

"Therefore it is perfectly possible for children to be at the top and bottom of the BMI scale even though they follow roughly the same diet"

I think the word 'roughly' here is quite important.

You only need to eat a few extra hundred calories a week above what you're using to end up overweight. So a biscuit or two here and there, a slightly larger size portion of pudding, a bag of crisps once or twice a week. It all adds up.

I've noticed (and tried to address) the fact that I have in the past without thinking, given dd portion sizes which are too large. It's a weird thing - you find yourself giving them the portion you think they'll eat, rather than the portion they ought to have. And of course as dd eats quite a lot..... I suspect many parents with one child who's prone to overeat and be fatter than his or her siblings do this unthinkingly....

I was wondering if it is really necessary for your DD to have pocket money? I didn't at that age.

GlueSticks - she walks to school and back with her friends, and goes out at least once a week with them on her own. She needs some money.

Honestly - 12 sounds young, but she's like a teenager already in terms of having a rebellious attitude, teenage angst about her appearance, hormones, etc, etc.

Trying to keep her as a child is like trying to hold back the ocean.

Where do they go then when they go out? You could just give her money as and when she actually needs it (to go pictures with her friends etc) but not let her have money in her pocket all the time. You don't need money to walk to school. In my experience walking to and from school is the prime time to be popping into shops buying chocolate, crisps and bags of chips.

Also it's not like she needs the cash for any bus fares as she'll have a bus pass. I didn't have any money in my pocket as we were poor, but I still met up with friends, mostly at each others houses which costs nothing. I am not convinced that a 12 year old needs money all the time.

She is old enough for you to refer to your inlaws and their food intake and tell her that she will end up really fat and unattractive, unhealthy and diabetic if she continues stuffing herself with food the same way as her grandparents and aunt do. She is old enough for you to explain about genetic dispositions, and tell her that this is in HER control, not yours, and she will be responsible for turning herself into a morbidly obese young woman unless she watches it, learns from you about healthy eating, and come with you on walks.

We give our kids "challenge points" for long mountain walks or long bikes rides. They have now collected enough points to convert them into an X box or a Playstation.

Like the idea of 'challenge points'.

Bloody hell, this parenting business is hard work when your kids are lazy and greedy.

We're already stretched to the max monitoring her school work (she's very, very lazy at school and is really underachieving in most of her subjects).

Getting her to tidy her room, to her homework, go to bed on time, stop buying energy drinks and other disgusting crap, stop wearing inappropriate clothes and make-up, stop shouting at her brothers, start washing and putting dirty clothes in the washing basket, getting her to help a bit around the house..... It's like trying to push a fucking massive boulder up hill. I'm knackered with it.

Doesn't help that I've also got a hyperactive ASD 6 year old ds (he's WIRED - looks like a 6 year old version of Iggy Pop, stringy muscles and all) and an over emotional, rather camp, and hypochondriac 8 year old ds. Good lord, I need a holiday. No wonder I'm a bit fat. My children have driven me into comfort eating.

Point taken shagmund, it does take very little to become overweight vs within BMI but I do still believe that people have natural weights that they settle too, for example I'm around 5ft 6 and the few times I have got below 10st I look gaunt and find it practically impossible to maintain, whereas some people at that height are 8-9st.

I agree with you on the pocket money, if you cut it out then she is never going to learn to make responsible choices as an adult. I remember when I arrived at uni, one of the first things I did was go out and buy a huge selection of chocolate related items i.e. chocolate spread just because I could

On the things she binges on at home, can you try to put in some portion control i.e. for the cheese, keep cheese for cooking in the freezer or buy the pre grated low fat stuff which tastes revolting unless cooked or in a sandwich and then buy the pre wrapped portion sized pieces of cheese, much more expensive, but worth it if it stops your daughter eating it all.

Gosh shagmund I'm not looking forward to the teenage years.

Do you know from what you just posted, I'd be tempted to give it a break on the food front. Focus instead on trying to make a bit of time for just you and DD, why not go swimming together that way it will help both of you.

I work in the private sector now (as a HPC registered graduate podiatrist) but I was in the NHS for 10 years dealing with diabetics.

They are mostly (and I am married to one who is well controlled) bonkers when it comes to food.

You do get the odd one with a HbA1c under 6 but mainly bonkers. No understanding of the pathology, no interest in learning anything about it.

My classic diabetic quotes;

" I have chocolate but it's ok because it's fruit and nut"

FCL77 "oh right, is it better for you then?"

"yes it has less chocolate because the fruit and nut takes up space in the chocolate"

FCL77 "you know raisins are pure sugar, dont you?!

"is it?".

FCL77 "yes, it's still chocolate and would explain how your HbA1c is so high".

Second diabetic

"and then the lymphodema clinic told me I cant have red wine because it's high in sugar and is affecting my diabetes, but I read in the paper it's good for you"

FCL77 "yes, well there about 600 calories a bottle. How much did you have a night?"

"a bottle"

FCL77 "a whole bottle, every night?"

.

I have countless other examples but you get the idea. I have always said the worst thing is that these patients have families who love them and dont want to watch them suffer but the patients dont love them enough back to eat sensibly.

quintissentiallyshallow - how to create an eating disorder in one fell swoop!

did you watch the documentary a while back about the 'science of being thin'. Basically the got a group of thin people and fed them very calorific diets- like 10,000 caloriesa day and wouldn't let them exercise.Some of them still didn't gain any weight, they just excreted the xtra calories.
in another experiment with very young children - some seemed to be hard-wired to eat even when they are full whilst others weren't.
I think genes play a large part.In another programme , the health of a child seemed to be linked to the diet of their grandmother ie the nutritional state of the woman in which the girl foetus containing eggs was formed.It's all fascinating stuff!
When you think about it, the people who are prone to overeating and laying down fat, in a normal envionment would be the healthy ones who would survive famines and long hard winters. It is just in our anthopologically unusual food-abundant society they are the unhealthy ones.

Hmm, well lots of good responses here, I can't add much but, a couple of small thoughts.

You're not responsible for your in-laws and can't make them let you be but, you can be complicit in their behaviour or can choose not to be. So, if they were coming to my house I'd feed them our usual meal and portions. If they went away wanting chips and grumbling about my stinginess, it might at least prompt the question 'is that how some other people live?' which might just be disbelief and disgust at my poor hosting but might plant a seed of awareness.

In childhood I used to get chubbier then taller repeatedly, never really fat, never skinny and definitely got a message from family that fatness was not acceptable. I went through phases of comfort-eating and under-eating as a teen, no doubt based on using food as an emotional crutch from childhood, combined with underconfidence in some ways. I was never really fat and grew up and out of it into a healthy, fit, slim to slim-ish adult.

Things I think I know based on my own experience are that:

• Teenage eating relates to emotions and goes in phases, so a bad phase doesn't mean terrible eating patterns for life. Though, having good habits ingrained to start with makes it much easier to fall back on these beneath and between other things and come back to them later.

• Exercise that is chosen and enjoyed by the person themselves, so developing a habit of exercise, is massively valuable. I wasn't great at school sport though keen enough, as not very co-ordinated and school only cared about people who were good enough for the team but got into running from 16 as I could do it myself, on my own terms, with no-one else looking (I remember going out at dusk to start with but, before long, reaching the 'laugh all you like, I bet you couldn't run five miles' stage of confidence). Running still suits me, as does swimming, hill-walking and I have gained huge enjoyment from the experiences open to me through fitness. Other people will prefer dance, yoga or team activities and enjoy social aspects of those.

• Parental attitudes can drive bad habits underground, try to talk openly and be honest but not be too judgemental.

• Fitting in with peers is a massive influence. They will all eat rubbish at times but if friends are slim, your daughter will want to be too. If they are all fat I think it does normalise fatness and it's ok for you to comment to your daughter on their being overweight.

My eldest is overweight. I've always struggled but have found (after years and years of searching) an eating plan that works for me.

The whole family follow my eating plan (its basically slimming world, but we have adopted it into everyday and not just for when I'm dieting) and we've all lost weight, even maintained over Christmas! Unfortunately my eldest hasn't lost an ounce.

I think that there's very little wrong with what my eldest eats. His issue is exercise. He'd burn off a huge amount if he was interested remotely in some kind of sport, but he isn't. So this is what I am tackling at present, so far no change! I'm thinking of getting a dog JUST to get myself and my eldest out and moving every morning and afternoon. He'll happily play 'Just Dance' so we're doing that everyday.

Sorry for shifting focus from the op for a second but if anyone has any ideas of good exercise for those who HATE sports, I'd be receptive!

shagmund YANBU. But tread very VERY carefully with your dd (you can do nothing but lead by example with your inlaws, whether they choose to follow is their call). My mother was obsessive about health, nutrition, portion size, she never shut up... so being a contrary 12 year old mary, I'd spend my pocket money on crap. I was always hungry. I ended up fatter than if she'd just kept quiet, didn't execerbate my own self-loathing and not made such an issue out of dieting/healthy eating. Had she told me I was beautiful and quietly served up healthy food, I have no doubt my issues wouldn't have been so great psychologically.

Lottie the point you make about the influence of peers is very important. Dd goes to very rough school - lots of fat children. I think this does normalise it to some extent. However one of her bf is a super skinny Vietnamese girl with a black belt in taikwondo and the other is a tall, very beautiful and athletic girl - superbly well groomed. Why the hell their virtues haven't rubbed off on dd I don't know. Mind you, she's the dominant one in both relationships. She has bags of chutzpah - thankgoodness.

On the cheese front, I'm afraid cheese eating is a bit of a family hobby . We're cheese snobs and will always have SOMETHING a bit interesting in the fridge. I don't have a problem with cheese - neither me nor DH overeats it. DH would go into a terminal decline if I restricted his cheese buying activities....

Dandelionss, I saw such a documentary about over-feeding 'naturally skinny' adults. Of a group of about 12, one did manage to add the extra weight as muscle but most got fatter. The key seemed to be that they were good at responding to their 'full' feeling and didn't eat if they weren't hungry.

I find exercise helps a lot to establish healthy 'hungry' and 'full' feelings. I suspect that some habitual over-eaters don't really experience feeling hungry, so have no concept of not being hungry as a result.