horrible abusive ex or heart broken woman?

[crustychristmascrumbs]

dp and i have been together for over a yr and a half i met him in the middle of his divorce. after about 8 months he told his ex about me. now i already new she was difficult from being there when she phoned and hearing stories from his friends and family members about horrible phone calls,emails and rows with them and dp, she was generally very controlling and demeaning apparently.
but since finding out about me she has ramped up again continually using the kids to make dp/mine life difficult stopping contact for various reason making ur demands. i have tried to be as understanding as possible, met her to ally concerns etc given that dp left her, but she ended up shouting at me.
i understand that there are two sides to every story and that i love dp so am biased to him, but at what point do you say i am sorry you are still hurting but you need to get over it or do i need to continue trying to be as sensitive as possible. some times i just get so angry at what i see as control and destructive behaviour the things the kids come out with or the demands she expects us to do. but then i think we are happy and she is obviously not so does it hurt to try and be helpful.
we just found out we are pregnant and am dreading telling her as i know she will use this as yet another thing to beat dp with. he has often told me he just couldnt live like that any more in regards to his marriage. but i do think that sometimes he still is just not with the benefit of seeing his kids every day.

agree with NFK, I think its a shitty acess agreement and maybe getting some flex in it will make her a bit easier. But given that the Dad misses his kids anyway I cant see him agreeing. its a very sad state of affairs

I agree with Nancy though - things need to be put on a more formal footing. How long have you been together btw OP? See, all that formally putting things in place hasn't been addressed, when it probably would've been if dp wasn't so loved up ie formal access times etc. It's par for the course in most divorces (or it was??), it certainly was in mine eg exact pick-up/drop-off times. It stopped anybody mucking about and we all knew where we stood. thing is, if you introduce that now at the same time moreorless as announcing the pg... well it's not going to go down very well.

Can I just say again because I can't help it please please don't talk to her about her parenting or take the upper hand re the children. I've read to the end of kitchentiles post and that approach just makes me queezy with rage. If you tried that, dc would be single and their mother in prison. [kitchentiles, please don't off with my dp]

dp that is. duh.

cruel on who if the kids don't go to the dad every w/e? if 'cruel' on the dad because he misses them then, well, shit happens as someone said upthread. every w/e is not good for the kids, whether they like it or not, enjoy it or not, prefer it or not: it isn't good for the kids

Exactly Springdaffs. He can see them for a night during the week as well. Weekend parenting is a rubbish idea.

And two years isn't long. How long was the marriage? OP, I know that it must be enraging to have this ex wife who is driving you mad given the benefit of the doubt by posters. But there are so many other elements that are "off" with the situation that it's hard not to.

But what are the elements that are "off" with the situation such that the ex is getting the benefit of the doubt? To scream and yell in front of the children, and in particular, using access to children as a weapon if she is not obeyed is wrong and unacceptable. It's as wrong as a father refusing to see his children or pay maintenance. The op is not the ow. There is no indication the ex is not happy with every weekend (do we know if it's one day a weekend or all weekend). If the op was the ow I would have more empathy for the ex, but she isn't. The op will have to detach, and run her house with her dp as she sits fit. She can't pander to the wholly unreasonable actions of the ex, regardless of whether the ex is a heartbroken woman who canno yet see clearly what is best for her kids, or a bitter controlling witch hellbent on revenge cos she no lOnger has full control of the op's dp

I'm not saying that the stories are made up. I'm willing to believe that the ex wife shouts and screams a lot. I think the title of the thread is off. Crude and simplistic. I think the situation was problematic from the off. As I said before, it's too soon. If it's two years since they split and the new relationship is 18 months old, then that is quick and likely to cause problems. Now a pregnancy. I think the access arrangements are bad. It's possible the ex wife is a crazy but bad situations also give rise to bad behaviour. There are a lot of things going on here.

I think the title does the job nkf, in that it summed up the dilemma that op is facing and has tried to negotiate. Yes it's crude but that's what 'headings' are for, they bluntly sum up the content. I get your point though about areas of grey and if OP would come back (cooome baaaack op) we would probably hear more about the greys. I think op is trying to get this right and is asking for advice but has to put up with howling and reactionary opinions from people who aren't listening because they have an axe to grind re screaming at kids? tick; in the street? tick; witholding access? tick etc. (subtext: disgraceful woman/I would never be like that) etc. Then there's the furore over the 'we are pg' thing - I mean, so what that she wrote 'we'? It is irrelevant to the central issue imo. it's all a bit tiresome I find, particularly as it seems to me op is genuinely trying to get this right but it's impossible to make headway with all the reactionary boulders in the way.

ok bit off topic but i have to ask, child grows up with both parents to what ever point in its life say 2 yrs, 5 yrs or 10 yrs, whatever. parents separate for what ever reason and some people on here think that it is better for said child to have less time ie every other weekend with their dad/nrp than more?
as a mum who's dc go to their dads every weekend i find this astounding. but i am interested to understand why. for me yes there are times when i think oh i would like to take them to the whatever, but i get to be there everyday for them for all the little things. to read them a story every night and put them to bed every night, there dad doesnt get to do that. i feel for him missing out on that and see it less like he gets to do all the fun stuff and more of an important time for him to maintain his bond with his children. dont get me wrong he can be a total knob some times and do things i dont agree with but thats got nothing to do with their relationship.
he was ill last weekend and couldnt have them and they were very upset to be missing their time with him. i am very glad that they have this continued relationship with him and feel it is massively important for the childrens well being to know both their parents still care for them equally.
can you explain to me how it would be better for them to see less of him?

Have I missed something... everyone's talking about the contact arrangements as if they're the reason for the problem here. I would be surprised if both parents hadn't agreed to these. Just because its not the arrangement that many of the posters here would choose doesn't mean it's not the right thing in the OP's case.

Her post was about how to handle the mother of her DP's children behaving in an obstructive and aggressive manner. I for one am interested in the views on this as I'm a complete and utter pushover where my DP's ex is concerned.
OP if you're still reading these... Congrats and good luck in finding your way in this difficult situation. You clearly want to do the best thing for the children and for you. I wish you success.

Springydaffs, you speak a lot of sense.

Samwellsbutt no-one is saying the arrangement you have agreed is bad or good. If it suits you and your children, that's fine, and you sound like you have everything sorted. But the situation under discussion is raw.

It's perfectly possible for children to maintain a relationship with the NRP every other weekend. Quality, not quantity, is the key.

olgaga spring says several times as do others that every weekend contact with children isnt good for them. she isnt just taking about the situation here hence why i said it was off topic.
i also did say it wasnt poss for there to be a good relationship with nrp through every other weekend contact, i am just wondering why the belief that its bad for children to see their parents every weekend?

didnt say even

because the NRP is seen as the 'fun' (happy) parent, and the RP is seen as the ogre who nags and gets stressy re RP work, NRP play. It's just a bad model for the kids. Which is why the family courts recommend every other w/e, which has a thorough base in research (they wouldn't recommend it otherwise). As I said in a previous post, the courts also recognise that the to-ing and fro-ing is disruptive for the kids - all of mine hated it come the end. Some celebrity or other has a house which the kids live in and the divorced parents move into for access times, while the other moves out (have I explained that well enough?) ie it's the parents who do the to-ing and fro-ing. Better for the kids but there would have to be 3 properties on the go.

There are ways around it samwells but the parents would have to live quite close by for it to work well I think? It just isn't a good model for the kids to associate one gender with work and the other with fun. We all know which gender would get the fun label.

Plus I did all the work and ex got the reward! It was important that me and my kids experienced the work and the reward, together; gave our relationship a continuity.

God it is beat the step mother week isnt it. OP well done for a. recognising that you may well not know the whole truth. Fact is it takes two to make and break a marriage and its very unlikely your dp was perfect in it. I am a step mum too and my dp was absolutely bloody rubbish to his first wife, and her to him - they were bloody awful together frankly. They got married young and just made each others lives miserable - totally different views on priorities, child rearing etc and both behaved badly in different ways as a result. Its taken a while (and a good therapist) but we have a very different dynamic, are both older and have similiar priorities so work better most of the time pretty crosses fingers, touches wood and hopes she doesnt curse herself. Its almost always the same in marriage breakdowns so its mature and considerate that you take the time to think that way.

She sounds in pain and you weren't there at the break up so no matter what his friends and family say which is almost always bollocks anyway try to remember that there are two sides. The pain of losing her husband must be one thing but to have to share your children on terms you didn't agree to at the time of conception must be so incredibly hard and having dealt with similiar shit to you I keep trying to tell myself that people deal with these things differently and some women just cannot move past it.

You are however his partner now and soon to be mother to his child which means you have a few rights of your own - one of which is not to be abused or harrassed at home. I cannot tell you what will make her stop - I would love the answer to that myself but what I can tell you is this. Their relationship is clearly not good but if I have learnt anything over the last few years your best bet is to stay out of it. Some tips from the frontline:

1. Do not answer calls from her, forward emails to your partner and tell her that you are not prepared to get involved as this is an issue for your partner and her. Contact times, issues, money etc are nothing to do with you and your partner should be dealing with it.

1. Try to respect her rules with the kids if they are reasonable, its better for the children which is the most important bit, but if you feel really strongly about certain things try sitting with the children and in a very positive way, without talking about either parent, just suggest that as you are all sharing a house and will be for quite some time, would they like to suggest any "golden rules" for the house and you can have a couple too, so you all work together as a team to make it a pleasant living environment. If something is totally unnacceptable to you, in your house, children follow the rules, be they yours or someone elses. End of story.

1. Do not, as someone else suggested give in to a load of whims on the hope she will settle down. She wont and you will set a precedent that will be even worse in the long run to beat. (Bitter experience talking there).

1. Get thyself outside friends and interests as a break from the stress. A stressed, unhappy partner can be tough to deal with - you need support yourself to be a supportive partner.

1. Do not get involved in slagging her off to his friends and family. Trust me it will only wind you up and god forbid it goes wrong with him you will know exactly what they are likely to say about you.

1. Explain to your partner that you find her turning up at the house threatening and intimidating. Ask that he request she stop. If she wont take further action.

And to those trying to make op feel bad about the first wife. If you left your partner, met someone else later on and he had a family too, would you like it if you didnt do what your ex asked for instance not feeding YOUR child enough veg one day (just an example not a quote) so he turned up on your doorstep hammering on the door and shouting at your new partner, or you. Do you think your new man would take well too it? Unlikely and advise on the reverse situation would be call the police. Abusive, harrassing behaviour is just that - this woman has a choice. Yes she is in pain, yes it is bloody hard but she can take control of herself and her life and not refuse to allow her partner to move on thus setting up a bitter, aggressive and painful relationship for all involved especially the kids, or she can carry on as she is, which if she had a penis would automatically see her landed on the wrong side of the law and end up ruining her own happiness in the process. A break up is not a license to behave however you like, regardless of how angry you are and I mean that on both sides.

Phew - op hit step parents btw - we are generally a sympathetic but very honest bunch !!

fantastic post with sage advice prettyfly. But I just don't get at all that this has been a step-mother bashing thread?? The majority of posters have tried to be fair and balanced and haven't 'bashed' op at all imo. We only have one side and everybody is trying to see it from all sides. I'm a bit pissed off that you are saying - twice - that the thread bashes stepmothers tbh.

Not all springy - as always there are some very well thought out views - I am just feeling a bit grr at the mo as there has been some serious step bashing over the last week - apologies if I came across as a bit generalistic - not fair of me, you are right.

Depends on the family, mine go to their dads every weekend and I've never had any problems with them thinking their dad is the fun parent

I think that it is dependent on your family. The guidelines from the courts are set out in the instance that a family cannot agree on access times. What works for one child and one family would be totally wrong for another - the rules from the court are there for guidelines if it cannot be sorted out amicably as a general rule - it doesnt mean it is the definitive right way, just the way that works ok in the majority of cases where mutual agreement cannot be found. I would hate not having my kids at the weekendh, but then OH hates not putting the kids to bed and doing their stories - when parents split one way or another someone loses out, its just a case of trying to find the loss you as a family and individuals can best cope with.

i agree moonin and pretty i do fun things with my children during the week and their dad does homework etc with them at the weekends i suppose it depends how you define the roles. i also dont see what it teaches child in these relationships that nrp are able to walk away from relationships with minimum contact or thats all they can expect. its almost a self perpetuating cycle. since as you pointed out spring the nrp parent tends to be the father.

I always frowned on parents that couldn't agree over access and be amicable. However, now the shoe is on the other foot and I have been left devasted, heartbroken and begging from charities for help as my ex has left me in so much debt and with a huge mortgage plus knowing he moved straight in with his OW I now realise how damn difficult it is. I am suffering and my child is suffering while they are going out and having a ball and booking holidays this quite frankly makes the sensible, rational me hide and the bitter angry one out. I have begged him for money for heating and a little bit more a month so I can buy food and all he has done is threaten me with taking my son and going for custody.

It is not always possible to remain amicable or rational when faced with such huge stress and loss. I know I can't and no, she may not be acting decently but she wasn't even divorced from him. I am damn sure my ex's OW is not being told the whole picture and so you may not being told the whole picture or hear every phone call. I am sure that when she has got used to the idea that the man she loved is with someone else she may calm down.

Happylander feel for you, even without the financial stress it can still be a nightmare. Thankfully my marriage is intact (as of this minute) but as a child of a failed marriage, and having supported friends whose husbands/partners have left, I feel I can speak from some experience.

The real lesson from this thread is for those women who take on a man with an enormous amount of baggage. Only rarely will it be plain sailing. FFS you only have to read this site to realise that.

Disloyalty, broken hearts, divided families, the kids who will put up with just about anything, yet know deep down their mum or dad would rather live with someone else than with them in the family home they left.

Parents and step-parents who think life would be fine, if only it weren't for that fly in the ointment - their past. Sadly many find out they can replace their partner, but the mother/father of their children cannot be replaced.

So what if some parents, whether mothers or fathers, can wave goodbye to their kids without a care in the world for a quarter or a third or a half of their young lives? Frankly, I don't think I could.