horrible abusive ex or heart broken woman?

[crustychristmascrumbs]

dp and i have been together for over a yr and a half i met him in the middle of his divorce. after about 8 months he told his ex about me. now i already new she was difficult from being there when she phoned and hearing stories from his friends and family members about horrible phone calls,emails and rows with them and dp, she was generally very controlling and demeaning apparently.
but since finding out about me she has ramped up again continually using the kids to make dp/mine life difficult stopping contact for various reason making ur demands. i have tried to be as understanding as possible, met her to ally concerns etc given that dp left her, but she ended up shouting at me.
i understand that there are two sides to every story and that i love dp so am biased to him, but at what point do you say i am sorry you are still hurting but you need to get over it or do i need to continue trying to be as sensitive as possible. some times i just get so angry at what i see as control and destructive behaviour the things the kids come out with or the demands she expects us to do. but then i think we are happy and she is obviously not so does it hurt to try and be helpful.
we just found out we are pregnant and am dreading telling her as i know she will use this as yet another thing to beat dp with. he has often told me he just couldnt live like that any more in regards to his marriage. but i do think that sometimes he still is just not with the benefit of seeing his kids every day.

Can I just stick up for the OP. I think the "we are pregnant" is lovely. When I had my son, I was pregnant, I had the baby, I brought up the baby albeit within a sham of a marriage, I am still his only 'real' parent.

I would just love to have been able to have said at some point "we are pregnant" OK grammatically incorrect, it should have said "we are expecting a baby" because both mother and father are expecting, as in looking forward to the arrival of the baby. I would have died to have been able to have said "we are parents", "we are looking forward to the birth of our son/daughter" instead of "I am" throughout and "my son" instead of "our son".

So I think we should lighten up on the OP, if they are both looking forward to a much wanted baby then good for them and if that means she says "we" instead of "I" I can live with it.

Well I think the whole point of a contact order is that yes, they are enforceable, in some way (sorry I don't know myself). So if you are that worried about her cutting off contact the best thing to do is to get a formal order in place.

I'm not at all saying she is reasonable, the question remains how to deal with it.

There are a number of people like this in my own family and the standard response is to stand up to them, not let them get away with things, etc, and all that happens is that there's open warfare for years and years and the children are caught in the middle.

I presume all the grief she gives you about diet and activities, the kids don't hear that? So whether you give in or not, doesn't really affect the kids -- it's just affecting you and your DP.

What does affect the kids, it sounds like, is withdrawing contact. So get that order set up. Everything else is parents squabbling, I understand it must be very hard for you but the best thing for the kids is to keep things as civil as possible.

Contact orders aren't enforceable, they are there for the last resort when all contact is lost really. You might be able to get somewhere with them but if the resident parents digs their heals in, it is rare for a court to actually find a way to force them.

Please don't advice people to go for them, they are the biggest source of pain and anguish to mothers and fathers alike. You have to understand the family courts and contact orders are NOT the way forward.

yes most of the arguing etc is done not around the children but some of the shouting in the street is done in front of them, of course for their sake i wish it was all lovely and grown up and reasonable i keep feeling like i need to be the bigger person and let it go all of the time but that is not helping so maybe a different tack is needed.
i think from now on if she starts shouting or being abusive we will just end the conversation either in person or phone i dont deserve to be treated like that really. see how that goes. i think there will be a massive back lash once we tell her about the baby so we will probably need to have that already in place.
and maybe just ignore her demands about the kids unless they are necessary, oh dont know.

Okay, I apologise. I have seen people recommend them on here countless times so I assumed there was some point to them?

If there is in fact no way to enforce contact, then it's really not a good idea to 'stand up to her'. It sounds like if you want to see the DC then you have to go along with her crazy behaviour, I know it sucks but I don't see what else you can do.

I'm so sorry, it sounds so stressful

You definitely have to be the bigger person here. On the plus side, as the DC get older, they will recognise that and it will mean a lot to them.

It is so hard to deal with crazy people, but the more you can tell yourself it's not really about you and just try to let it roll off your back, it gets easier. And usually, eventually, they get a bit less crazy.

From personal experience, for telling the children and the ex about the baby, I would:

• Tell the children when they are with you for the weekend
• Phone the ex as soon as you can after you have told the children and tell her.

If you tell her first, it will give her the chance to tell them in whatever way suits her. You've already said you think she will take it badly. At least if you tell them first you can gauge their genuine reactions, talk to them about any concerns etc, before she has a chance to put her spin on it.

You have my sympathy, OP. Six years of drama here and no sign of it getting very much better.

dreaming sorry didn't mean to sound harsh but spent more time than I care to remember in the family courts on my own case and knew that if it came to it, I'd ignore any order that came my way and get away with it. My ex was abusive to the child and it would have been a case of over my dead body, because if I didn't he would have hurt the child. The court orders also favour fathers having contact, only 1% end up with a no contact order.

So the whole thing is skewed but if a resident parent sticks her proverbials up to the court orders, there is not much anyone can do about it.

Stay out of it. My now ex told me that his ex dp was controlling, manipulative, nasty and horrible to him and shattered his self esteem. Funnily enough he is now saying the same things about me now that he has walked out on me and his 2 year old son.

Men lie and tell you what you want to hear. His family also said the same stuff about his ex and they are now saying the same stuff about me. The fact that I had no idea that he was unhappy and was going to leave me came as a huge shock and I am heartbroken. I later found out he had left me and moved in with his latest gullible woman. Quite frankly if this woman ever tried to speak to me about my son I would go mental.

Oh no worries at all, and I'm sorry you had to go through that.

I just feel bad recommending it, I really did have the impression from MN that they were helpful! Probably not reading the right threads I guess.

Family courts are a nightmare, my ex took me to court it took over two years during which time he only saw his child in the CAFCASS offices every few months for less than an hour finally he lost all direct contact. I could have been lying, I wasn't, I had to protect my child, and the fear was intense even though I knew I wouldn't comply with a court order.

I am sorry to have an insight into this, I wish I didn't.

I have also supported the family of a male friend who is a terrific father, superb Dad, he even works with children, and he lost contact to his children. The judge apologised to him but there was nothing he could do.

Now many years later he is back in touch with his children and now my child is older he is back in touch with his dysfunctional father. If there is a half decent level of contact going on then don't use the courts always try to find alternatives.

Sorry Dream I know I came over as rude but years of pain in the family courts was to blame. APologies..

oh god OP your story sounds exactly like when me and now-DH got together

sadly 4 years nearly down the line and things are no better, so no real advice i am afraid but i guess i am bookmarking this thread to read later to see if anyone else has posted any good advice

but good luck OP, keep us posted x

Every weekend seems a bit excessive to me. It means the RP gets all the boring work and the NRP gets all the fun downtime. Have they agreed every w/e? every other w/e is better for the kids.

I'm sorry you're having a hellish time. congrats on your pg.

I would wait until as late as possible to tell her about the baby TBH, she clearly wont take it well

Look she is hurt/hurting and most likely has a fairly shitty weekend on her own sans the kids. It must be really hard for her

you need to extract yourself from this as far as possible and basically try and accept the situation, as I cant see her pain and upset abating in any way

and I see the post about Xmas day, but here is what leaps out at me

you will spend a cosy xmas with DP stroking your bump
she will be on her fucking tod

I think you and DP need to be the bigger people here and have some compassion for her. you have each other and the baby, once the kids are away my guess is she has noone

Look I know it cant be easy, and I would not give into her refusing kids for the weekend. But I am not seeing any compassion and I would just try and remeber what you and you DP have got

can you tell I feel really fucking sorry for her ! sorry OP but I do

Its so fucking sad. I hate reading this stuff and whenever a couple with kids split up, its just pain pain and xmas makes it even worse. I also think it must be HORRIBLE for her to wave the kids of every weekend. Could you maybe try and negtiate around this, as maybe if she has the kids 1 weekend per month for example she might see some compromise and then back off?

Happylander

You have posted exactly what I have seen so many people go through.

Crusty why should this woman be happy? Her Dh walked out on her and the Dc's, meets someone within months, who is now (unknown to her pregnant) and playing happy familes with her kids.

Should she be getting her gladrags out for a weekend spent clubbing because she is gagging to move on with her life and meet someone new? Also wait for your DP's reaction when she does and someone else is playing Daddy to his children.

All the name calling he does about her is probably only half truths (and insults half the child) and be very aware you may be the one who will one day be handing over your DC to a strange woman. I hope he doesn't roll his eyes and say "Look what I had to put up with for years" when you get difficult about meals and contact etc etc. You may even come across as 'manipulative' and 'controlling'.

Stay out of their relationship - you will only stir up more trouble.

I think the every weekend thing must be hard for her. She has all the hard work during the week but never gets to have the fun time on the weekend? That's not really fair. Perhaps her resentment of this situation is driving her irrational behaviour? Could you adjust the contact times somehow?

Again, not to excuse her bad behaviour, but if you can get to what's driving it, maybe you can make some changes to improve things.

so thats my point at what point do you say ok thats enough now we have to put a stop to this

Well how exactly would you do that, even if it was your place to do it?

It sounds to me as though she's getting a pretty raw deal, if your P has the children every weekend. Imagine never being able to have downtime at the weekend with your kids - it must be awful for her. I'm surprised she agreed it, and would be surprised if it continues, especially once your baby arrives. You might find you want to change the arrangements yourself.

Have you thought of what life might be like for you if things don't work out with your P and you had to hand over your baby every weekend for another woman to play happy families with?

I think your remark about the forgotten bookbag was quite revealing. Lost items, forgotten items, are actually really important. If he has them every weekend he needs to make sure they have everything they came with - simple as that.

and maybe just ignore her demands about the kids unless they are necessary, oh dont know

Well you can't ignore them - she will get to hear about it if you do, and you will provoke more trouble that way and it might well end up in court. They are her children, as well as his. Your partner can replace his wife, but you don't replace her as their mother and primary carer. Again, I would urge you to put yourself in her position.

I think the best advice you have had on here is to keep out of it as much as you possibly can, hard as it might seem.

I'm agreeing with Redruby. Try to imagine is he left you and you were in the exs position. Handing you kid over for contact is hard. We all like to think we would handle it maturely and responsibility but it really isnt easy when it comes down to it. Obviously she may be just be a pain in the arse but you are only hearing one side.

Try to keep out of it and just be there with moral support for DP, leave them to deal with their children.

its good to see that there are so many stereotypes alive and well on this thread.
the lying husband that left for no reason other than his own selfish needs found some other new naive idiot and will do the same to her.
the poor wounded flower of an ex wife that can do no wrong and obviously never did and the deluded new partner who needs to suck it up because at best she is being an idiot and at worst she is a man stealing whore bent on playing happy familys with the wounded flowers children, so much for living in an enlightened society were we can see past stereotypes.
op you sound nice, nicer than me any way because i did believe my dp when he told me about his ex and others and having witnessed her behaviour i have no reason not to believe it. some people are just bitter and nasty and horrible whether life made them that way or it is directly related to the marriage break up is kind of irrelevant you dont have to put up with that behaviour and i might add neither does you dp he left her for a reason.
there is no reason to be nasty or horrible about it yourself but firm and fair is my motto. if there is a genuine problem or grievance it gets dealt with but every thing else gets ignored and this is for every ones benefit. the situation has gotten better over time this way though some times we have relapses she is obviously not going to change as a person but we dont have to have that person in our lives any more than necessary.
you have people saying stay out of their relationship, they dont have a relationship they have children together or thats they way it should be. you should encourage you dp to not let his ex shout at him in the st in front of the kids and things again i say he left her for a reason, i would imagine so he didnt have to put up with those things, now he doesnt.
with regards to contact i am reading lots on here about changing contact to suit the mum. wow the poor kids go from seeing their dad every weekend to what every other weekend because the mum is having a hard time apparently. it amazes me how often the kids feeling are not taken in to account in these situations.
my dc go to their dads every weekend and i dont scream or make demands. i want them to have a good time with their dad whom they love and miss and should see every week. i would rather have a good relationship with any gf he may have because she will be looking after my children when i am not there.
maybe thats the plan though be horrible to the new gf make her resent the kids so the the hubby will see what a fool he has been.
this is really long and kind of ranty but i am genuinely surprised to see so many people saying that the ex's behaviour is ok and the op needs to suck it up. you dont op. and i am pretty sure that not many of these woman would in your position.

Well I'm not saying the ex's behaviour is okay. Not at all. But the OP can't force her to suddenly be rational and happy, so it's worth trying to understand why she's being so crazy.

And there's plenty of stereotypes to go around, the 'bitter crazy ex wife' being one of them, which often is not a fair reflection.

samwellsbutt
"maybe thats the plan though be horrible to the new gf make her resent the kids so the the hubby will see what a fool he has been"

It sounds like you are pursuing a few stereotypes of your own.

Samswell

"you have people saying stay out of their relationship, they dont have a relationship they have children together"

That is a pretty strong link that will last for years and I would call it a relationship whether it is good, bad or indifferent. The relationship will mean them seeing each other at sport's days, school plays, PT evenings, weddings etc etc. for years.

It may get better, it may get worse. Who knows?

too true, point out my obvious tongue in cheek comment but the op is listing behaviour that is not nice or pleasant. he dp ex could be lovely to everyone except them or everyone except them and family members or what ever. it really is irrelevant she is making the op's life difficult i dont understand the reasoning behind it her children are involved that should be enough for her to behave in a more mature and thoughtful way as the op says its been over two years. at this stage i would think it was just maliciousness.

Am I right in understanding that the ex wife never has the kids at weekend. That's terrible for her. How come? Bad arrangement for a start. All the weekday chores and none of the fun time.

It's all too soon. You met him in the middle of his divorce and now you're pregnant. He and she were still disentangling and you are part of the process. It will probably ease with time.