horrible abusive ex or heart broken woman?

[crustychristmascrumbs]

dp and i have been together for over a yr and a half i met him in the middle of his divorce. after about 8 months he told his ex about me. now i already new she was difficult from being there when she phoned and hearing stories from his friends and family members about horrible phone calls,emails and rows with them and dp, she was generally very controlling and demeaning apparently.
but since finding out about me she has ramped up again continually using the kids to make dp/mine life difficult stopping contact for various reason making ur demands. i have tried to be as understanding as possible, met her to ally concerns etc given that dp left her, but she ended up shouting at me.
i understand that there are two sides to every story and that i love dp so am biased to him, but at what point do you say i am sorry you are still hurting but you need to get over it or do i need to continue trying to be as sensitive as possible. some times i just get so angry at what i see as control and destructive behaviour the things the kids come out with or the demands she expects us to do. but then i think we are happy and she is obviously not so does it hurt to try and be helpful.
we just found out we are pregnant and am dreading telling her as i know she will use this as yet another thing to beat dp with. he has often told me he just couldnt live like that any more in regards to his marriage. but i do think that sometimes he still is just not with the benefit of seeing his kids every day.

i dont see my ex at any of the things mentioned plays etc we go at different times same with pte or if one of us cant go the other does and the info is relayed via email. it is not a close bond.
yes i will have him in my life for years but that doesnt mean he has to be a part of my life or i his.
i also can say that i have absolutely no rights to dictate what happens as a mother when the children are at his house beyond general safety issues. so if i find out something i dont like i can mention it but ultimately there is bugger all i can do about it beyond stopping contact which would make me an evil cow to be honest. so op she really has no rights to be dictating to your dp what he can and can not be doing he is their father with parental responsibility he can decide what happens when the kids are with him. just like he cant tell her what to do when they are with her.

If dh had a new partner and they were wanting to have my son staying with them, I would want to meet her too. She INBU for wanting to meet you, and like it or not you do have a link with her if you are going to be taking care of her children.

I'd be tempted to go and see her. Reassure her, and make your own mind up. My step mum did just that, and my Mum really appreciated it. They are still friends.

Well I think the title is telling in that it is so black and white. She is probably not all abusive nut job but is unlikely to be a poor lameless victim either, nothing is that black and white.

However the fact that your partner, and perhaps you, see it that way makes be wonder whether the way your partner, and perhaps you, communicate with her may be contributing.

I just mean that if the decision has been made that she is a controlling nutjob then you and your partners reactions to her will be affected by that. I do wonder whether, even unconsciously, you are reacting in a way that is ezacerbating the situation, e.g. using your example of the book bag is it possible that when she raised the matter of the missing book bag you and your partner immediately went into defensive "oh here we go" mode and perhaps responded in an expecting trouble way which may have contributed to the trouble?

I'm not saying this IS the case, but the OP was all about how totally unreasonable the ex is and how perfectly reasonable and blameless you and your partner are, and this is just so unlikley, not saying you and your Partner have done anything wrong per se, just that if you really looked at how you have both dealt with this situatiokn you could probably come up with ways you could have handled things better and you can use these to help you move forward.

I dont understand why people are defending the exw behavious with she might be upset/heartbroken etc. The exw is an adult, shit happens (in life) and you deal with it, like an adult. For whatever reason, the relationship did not work out between the op's dp and his ex. Doesn't give the exw the right to make life difficult for the op or the dp. Op you have my full sympathies.

Here's how I would handle her:

In every dealing with her, put the children first. If she's shouting in front of them, don't think about what she's saying or how pissed off you are, say to her "It's not nice for the children to see you upset, why don't you call me about it later and then we can talk about it properly'. In every decision you have to make, let doing what's best for them be your guide. She won't be able to blame for that.

Try to share as little information about what you have planned - for instance, how did she know in advance you were planning a roast? Don't tell her what you're doing so she has nothing to ruin. If she asks what you're going to eat or where you're taking them, be vague. "Not sure yet" or "We might do X or we might do Z.' You can then say "Is there anything they shouldn't eat/do?" She would then have to say 'no' (or quickly come up with something totally random). Then it's harder for her to come back to you after the weekend, saying you shouldn't have done whatever.

If she threatens no contact, say 'that's very sad for the children, I hope they won't be too upset. What are you going to tell them, so that we don't say anything contrary when we do see them'

Just be super reasonable, calm and bring everything back to the children each time.

Exactly what rootietootie said.

If your dp has tried to sort things out amicably with his ex, to no avail, then he needs to make things more official.

I have sympathy for the ex but she's being manipulative.

Perhaps he's been too much of a pushover up until now - he needs to send her a formal letter listing his grievances - lack of contact, aggressive behaviour, cancelled access etc...and state, very firmly, that he intends to take all necessary action to protect his family and enforce his rights as a father.

Families Need Fathers are an excellent organisation that may have some useful advice. (they're the sane ones - not the nutters that climb Buckingham Palace dressed as Batman)

I hate it when people talk about their rights as parents. The children have a right to a relationship with both parents.

I love it when people say stay out of it. If you are living with these children you are part of it and it directly affects you and your life.

"together parents" often bring up kids with differing parental views, whilst they love each other and are together these problems and issues often get sorted out.

When you have seperated parents and hatred and anger and new partners to add to the mix in invariably gets very messy.

Some parents can be grown up and mature and rise above things and do the best thing for everyone, some simply can't.

There are good biological parents and good step parents. There are bad step parents and bad biological parents.

Some people seem to take the view that the biological parents always have the best interests of the children at heart and believe me that is not always the way at all!

You clearly are trying to see it from her side, re the title of your thread. YOu have tried your best but, as nkf says, their business wasn't finished and along you came, which absented him from the nuts and bolts of winding down his marriage. She was robbed of that and, even though her behaviour doesn't sound ideal (to put it mildly), this could well be one of the key reasons behind it. Now you are pg and truly he has moved on - that will probably be very hard for her, as it is for so many, even though she ultimately has to suck it up. For the sake of the children, really - in fact, entirely. We all need to feel we are valued, valuable, respected.

So, their children. You say you love their kids and get on well with them - hear me on this: if she's a decent woman she will be glad of that but that's not to say the green-eyed monster will not be playing merry hell. There is no jealousy like it: another woman mothering your children. Unbearable. imo (though no doubt a hoard of women will come along chanting the party line - that it's best for the children blah blah. Of course it is but that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt, that it isn't visceral. Although a lot of women don't have a problem with it, a sizeable majority do). You haven't answered OP why the children stay with their dad every w/e. Every other w/e is actually recommended by the family courts [samwell], plus possibly tea and overnight during the non-w/e week. The family courts consider this model less disruptive for the children and is not a recommendation to assuage the feelings of either parent, regardless of the circumstances. It is for the benefit of the children. That said, when I first split with my ex I was very depressed and for a while the children went to him every w/e - until I was well enough to cope with a full week and w/e too. Every w/e was a temporary arrangement which suited both parents and, possibly, the children too as they got used to not having their daddy living in the family home. After a while (about a year?), one child in particular was finding the to-ing and fro-ing too disruptive and, as I was now well enough, it changed to every other w/e which had been recommended by the family courts. We all settled in to the new arrangement. I don't know if ex was happy with it but the children were, which was the important thing.

I have some friends who went to Relate to wind down their marriage (after he had caught her in bed with his best mate). He requested it, she agreed. It helped him move on, to accept her new relationship with said (ex) best mate. On another point, imo men can have a tendency to move on entirely when they move on to a new relationship - they can be a bit tunnel vision like that: you're out, you're in. It may be that your P is tired of her, has no regard or respect for her, sees her as a non-person? Particularly as he has gorgeous you by his side, plus little you on the way. He may or may not, but whatever way, it's all going to be very hard for her. You probably know all this. You could encourage him to treat her with the respect she deserves (I don't mean patronising her though! She'll see through that a mile off!), not just as a human being but also as the once-love of his life, the one he was fully committed to enough to have children with; the mother of his dear children. When men have moved on, it can sometimes take them a long time to re-respect the mother of their children. Those years of no respect can make the mother, the exP, feel she has been thrown away and is worthless (on top of that she has to somehow cope with somebody else mothering her children - agony). It was all that winding down that has been hijacked you see OP by your very quick union during their divorce. Perhaps they could go to Relate together to do the winding down respectfully? Relate aren't just for patching up relationships but supporting both through a split.

I'm sorry this is one-sided (and long!). I havne't actually experienced being left but, as you clearly realise, it doesn't take much imagination to consider what it may be like. Though I have had to bear another woman playing happy families with my children and that was very hard, particularly as she had none of her own and was convinced she should have mine (but that's another story!). Even when ex married again, there were some tail ends that needed addressing re our marriage somewhere along the line. Marriages don't just end just like that imo.

I agree with a PP, it doesn't have to be so black and white. She can be both options offered in the title, or she can be neither. It's had to say only having one side of the story, and a lot of that being second hand from the OP's DP. I also agree that the current contact arrangements seem really unbalanced, given that there is no contact order in place I appreciate this may have been the ex's choice as it may have suited her (maybe for work commitments) but certainly when negotiating contact I wouldn't agree to every weekend with the NRP and would be looking for every other weekend (Fri to Sun or Mon) plus a midweek overnight if possible.

OP, if your DP really is unable to find common ground with her than I agree with the advice given by Kitchentiles. Having said that, I would strongly advise your DP (not you) tries to communicate with her politely and calmly and tries to find some middle ground with her, they may no longer have a romantic relationship but they do still have a co-parenting relationship which will last for many years. it is everyone's interest, especially the children's, that that relationship is as polite, civil and co-operative as possible.

"If she's shouting in front of them, don't think about what she's saying or how pissed off you are, say to her "It's not nice for the children to see you upset..'"

oh lordy, pour petrol on the flames why don't you. She'd probably rip your hair off if you did that so don't even think of trying it. If anyone should do this it's their dad, not you.

i agree with spring here dont think you should be saying things like this to her, unless there really is no alternative. coach dp to be strong and end conversations etc but i wouldnt be mentioning the children to her at all. talk about the dc to your dp to the cows come home if she mentions them to you i would say you need to discuss that with dp and walk away tbh.

You are hearing stories from HIS friends about nasty 'phone calls from her. Did she call them, or did they listen in on his call's or has he bitched about her and told people she was nasty to him. To be honest, it sounds a bit like he is manipulating the situation to make her the baddy. You say he lost all confidence because of her abuse, yet he not only left her, but started a relationship before he was even divorced. I will admit whenever someone tells me they have met a guy who is seperated, just getting divorced alarm bells start ringing, as it nearly always turns out he was more married than they thought.

And it is unreasonable that DP gets them every weekend. he should have some weekends, and some week days. It is unreasonable that he expects her to do the school run, homework, getting them to bed early, whilst he gets to have the fun days at the weekend.

kelly, i heard about horrible emails from his mother to her which made her cry. i also heard from a friend about a four page email after a party say he was no longer welcome in her house because he left her out of the group. i have not heard about nasty phone calls i witness them she phones and screams down the phone at dp. he left her after seeking counselling and to which he still receives and to suggest that it is other wise is frankly insulting.
he received his decree nisi about 2 months after we met so no he was not more married than i thought or knew.
their contact arrangements are just that, theirs. she has never asked to change it and frankly i think it would be cruel to suddenly stop the children from seeing their father every weekend after 2 years.

Sorry, but the fact his mummy was emailing her beign nasty does make it sound like he makes sure everyone thinks he is the victim. he gets the children every weekend, thereby getting off all the not so fun aspects of childrearing, and then whinges because he does not get Christmas or the fact the DCs mother does not want them eating certain things at the weekend. At the end of the day the children and their welfare are nothing to do with you (if DP leaves you, then you will have no rights over them) so it is up to DP and their mother to sort out arrangements and their eating habits, not you.

I hear you OP and it could be that she is a psycho, but how is it good for the kids that all the cream times are with their dad (and you), the 'work' times with their mum? What message is that sending to the kids about the role of the mother (and father)? It's not a balanced message.

sorry you misunderstand me, dp ex was sending his mother emails which his mother did not tell dp about until after they separated. also does the ex not get them all the summer holidays half terms etc? you are absolutely right to say i have no rights over them but dp has so he can quite happily decided what they eat, do and where they sleep in our house.

It's a bad access arrangement and it could be changed without cruelty. I agree it's their arrangement but then so is the rest of the problem. You might find that a fairer system would make her less likely to make changes at the last minute.

I do think it's interesting that so many seem to be looking for an angle to place blame on the husband in this case and making claims about how divorced/split men will paint themselves as the victims and sling mud at their ex etc. in a way that would never happen if someone posted about a friend who was being emotionally abused or controlled by a man.
I'd imagine there'd be very few, "well she's going to be telling everyone she's the victim, isn't she?"

MQ - I agree but there's something very stereotyping about the title of the thread. I appreciate that thread titles are there to engage but, on the whole, people don't live at either extremes.

There is nothing wrong with every weekend contact especially if DC are pre-schoolers and Mum is a stay at home Mum and Dad is happy for this to happen.

Likewise if Mum is a stay at home Mum and they are at school because she will get over 13 weeks a year in holidays with them.

However, if she works, then i agree every other weekend is better with the holidays split between them. This assumes both parents want to see their children and be decent proper parents.

There are plenty of Mums out there who don't want their kids at weekends and prefer to be out partying or doing something else for themselves and then dump them onto full time working absent parent and step parent for childcare purposes whilst of course, having school look after them for the majority of the day during the week. Of course there are lots of absent dads who are a waste of space too.

The kids don't spend 13 weeks with their mother. They are with him for half the time. And pre-schoolers grow up. I think you need a system in place that has some longevity. That allows children fun and work time with their parents.

TRH, I am a SAHM with both school age DCs and pre-schoolers, and I still wouldn't be happy for their Dad to have them every weekend. Weekdays are generally stressy, filled with getting kids up, fed and dressed and out of the house on time, school runs (I have 3 a day as younger DCs at nursery and playgroup which are at opposite ends of the village), fights over homework, bathtime, getting them to bed early for school etc. Weekends are the fun times and it should not be the case that one parent has all the fun times and the other all the work. Every other weekend is fairer for everyone, and a midweek contact should be added if at all possible.