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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Is she really 'an artist', or is she just crap?

226 replies

Nandocushion · 17/12/2011 06:32

I met my friend a few years ago and she told me, early on, that she was an artist. She didn't talk much more about it, and she was always short of money (if not in fact 'starving'), so I didn't really question it.

More recently, she's told me the rather sad history of her art career, and it was as follows: went to art school, had approximately 15 shows, never sold anything. Not. A. Thing.

She is now 30 years out of art school and has never sold a piece of art. She feels that critics have been biased.

I haven't seen her art. I have no idea what it is like, but I do assume that over the course of THIRTY YEARS, if she was good, someone would have noticed. And I also think, that if you have never ever ever made any sort of money, not even pennies, off being an artist, then maybe it's time you stopped calling yourself "an artist". Am I BU?

OP posts:
troisgarcons · 17/12/2011 06:35

Has she tried entering the Turner Prize - that usually likes a pile of shit and rewards it handsomely Grin

Depends what you mean by 'artist' though. Our local hsopital is covered in 'for sale' daubings of local artists.

She might sculpt or compose plastic bags in attractive heaps!

tigerlillyd02 · 17/12/2011 06:36

I say "never give up on your dreams"

Although, I do hope she's also doing something else in order to survive.

Original poster
Nandocushion · 17/12/2011 06:39

What is she doing to survive? She's marrying people who support her.

I apologise, that was bitter. I do like her. I suppose I just wish I could marry someone who would support me while I faff around being unrealistic.

Oh, hang on - I'm a writer...

OP posts:
Megatron · 17/12/2011 06:45

Aw I feel a bit sorry for her. Have a look at her art, she may be an undiscovered genius. Or she may just be shit at drawing.

fifitot · 17/12/2011 06:50

Is selling stuff all she wants for her art? Some people make art but have other jobs to support them. For some, the making of art is a bit of a vocation and if they sell then great but it's not always the be all and end all.

If she has exhibited then someone likes her work. It's a very competitive area.

Selling something doesn't always mean she's good or bad. Not everything has to be defined commercially.

SuchProspects · 17/12/2011 06:57

Anyone can be an artist - commercial success isn't a criterion. If you are trying to make your living as an artist then selling stuff is important, but "artist" isn't primarily a job description.

HardCheese · 17/12/2011 06:57

Agree with fifitot - it's perfectly possible for an artist in any field to produce good work and for it to go unrecognised commercially, and it's not going entirely unrecognised if she's exhibiting, because getting a gallery to exhibit you is desperately competitive. Most artists have to do something else to keep the wolf from the door - I know quite a few novelists, for instance, who are published by prestigious publishing companies, and all have at least part-time jobs as well as writing.

I think that if you dedicate yourself to whatever form of art it is you produce, then you have a right to call yourself an artist - whether you can live on what you make from your art is a separate matter.

roundcornsilkvirgin · 17/12/2011 07:01

she's probably crap

HardCheese · 17/12/2011 07:07

There are also commercially-successful artists who are crap, so it's not an either/or situation!

Original poster
Nandocushion · 17/12/2011 07:20

Isn't it reasonable, though, when someone asks you, "What do you do?" to say what you do for a living? And if you say that you are an artist, then people will think that that is how you make your living?

I suppose I am BU. No doubt someone will shortly tell me that Van Gogh/Picasso/whoever didn't sell anything until after they were dead, and that's fair enough. I just think that in her position, I would have stopped giving myself the 'artist' title - which I think is terribly impressive - if I hadn't had any commercial success with which to back it up.

OP posts:
sitandnatter · 17/12/2011 07:23

I'm not sure why you're worried about it to be honest. What did you want her to describe herself as?

jasper · 17/12/2011 07:27

why does it bother you?
Does she have any kind of paid employment?

troisgarcons · 17/12/2011 07:27

Picasso sold lots when he was alive! He only died in 1973!

Damien Hurst, Tracey Emin, Banksy - all very rich modern artists.

You don't have to be dead to make money!

If she were any good, she'd be doing commissions of peoples pets etc.

Original poster
Nandocushion · 17/12/2011 07:37

'Worry' and 'bother' are odd terms. I was wondering if people thought they would describe themselves as working in a particular profession when they've never had any success at that particular profession. I also have a friend who describes himself as being 'practically in the legal profession' when he dropped out of first-year law school and has never worked in any legal capacity, ever.

I'm asking strangers on the internet for their opinions. The consensus, so far, is that I'm BU. Fair enough!

jasper: no, she doesn't. But she's not on any benefits, in case anyone is worried that I'm going to do any covert benefit-bashing.

OP posts:
jasper · 17/12/2011 07:46

"covert benefit bashing " Grin

your non legally qualified friend is completely taking the piss!
I'm practically in the circus profession by those standards.

She's an artist if that's what she choses to call herself. I'm practically an acrobat.( I once did a forward roll )

You can chose to privately call her a pretentious leech, and I would not blame you !

sitandnatter · 17/12/2011 07:51

I just think you've got some wierd friends.

Original poster
Nandocushion · 17/12/2011 07:57

sitandnatter: no arguments there.

I need to get out more, and go to better places.

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noddyholder · 17/12/2011 08:12

She sounds true to herself. Lots of artists struggle and you are still an artist whether you sell or not! You sound a bit mean it is her life and howcsheclives it is her business Merry Xmas

SHoHoHodan · 17/12/2011 08:17

I think I see what you mean.

In my family, two people have written books- me and my brother. Neither have been published (yet Grin). He, however, calls himself A Writer. (Always with caps). I, on the other hand, do not and will not consider myself to be A Writer until someone pays me to be one.

But I feel it's verging on arrogance on his part, somehow. Maybe I'm wrong though-perhaps you should always have the corage of your convictions, paid or not.

Oh I don't know.

SHoHoHodan · 17/12/2011 08:18

Or courage. No idea what corage is. Some kind of herb,possibly.

CotesduRhone · 17/12/2011 08:22

Hmmm, I don't know. I'd never squash anyone's dreams, at all, but they do have to be tempered with a certain amount of reality. Also if it helps, a family member of mine is a very successful and wealthy 'artist' and he cringes if anyone calls him that, as far as he's concerned he's a painter, and anyone who swans around talking about how much of an artist they are probably spends more time doing that than actually doing any good work. Grin

So I know what you mean.

Original poster
Nandocushion · 17/12/2011 08:36

There seems to be an unwritten rule that if you are A Writer, then you have had someone pay you to write something, that they have published it. Otherwise, you just have a blog, and/or you are a bit of a waster, or something like that. But if you paint pictures, then you are in fact An Artist, regardless of whether anyone has bought one of your creations.

It's not fair! (She says, as a barely recognised writer.)

I have no plans to quash anyone's dreams, or to suggest anything. I am just asking.

OP posts:
Cankulzof · 17/12/2011 08:42

can you link to her work?

Wink
Original poster
Nandocushion · 17/12/2011 08:45

No links, sadly. If she'd been commercial, I could have done.

OP posts:
LetLoveRule · 17/12/2011 08:45

Why don't you ask to see her work?

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