Is she really 'an artist', or is she just crap?

[Nandocushion]

I met my friend a few years ago and she told me, early on, that she was an artist. She didn't talk much more about it, and she was always short of money (if not in fact 'starving'), so I didn't really question it.

More recently, she's told me the rather sad history of her art career, and it was as follows: went to art school, had approximately 15 shows, never sold anything. Not. A. Thing.

She is now 30 years out of art school and has never sold a piece of art. She feels that critics have been biased.

I haven't seen her art. I have no idea what it is like, but I do assume that over the course of THIRTY YEARS, if she was good, someone would have noticed. And I also think, that if you have never ever ever made any sort of money, not even pennies, off being an artist, then maybe it's time you stopped calling yourself "an artist". Am I BU?

Ah yes. This is a pet hate of mine. A friend is a pretty unaccomplished painter of canvases, which she then tries to sell at craft fairs. Apparently she is An Artist. I would rather die than promote and peddle such substandard paintings, let alone give myself such a moniker.

Is she crap or just terrible at marketing?

How have you never seen her work? You don't sound like a very good friend tbh.

I find it odd that you think someone can only be a creative if they want to sell/are able to sell their art. Being an artist/musician is about the creation, not the transaction of exchanging it for money.

for every artist that has made their name there are hundreds if not thousands that have not and probably never will

i admire those that do not give up do not get caught up in well i have to have this and that to be a sucess and beleive in their dreams at times they may seem foolish to others but that is what it is about it is not something they like ot do it is their life they only thing they want to do i wish i had that just a little of that passion do drive me to do something creative

Look, love, you're , aren't you? If your mate is 'marrying people to support her' then she's working for her keep, but not unreasonably probably prefers to call herself and artist rather than a housewife, kept woman or, erm, sex-worker on longterm contract.

Van Gogh was a pauper, he only sold one painting in his life and that was to his brother. Not much help I know.

Does she have a agent? If she had some internet presence she might have more chance of selling

Well, hard to say, my mother was the opposite - didn't go to art school but could draw/paint very well, and sold hundreds of pictures and supported us as a family with her art for about 10 years when my father was unable to work for medical reasons. She painted local scenes and did portraits, that sort of thing. She never saw herself as An Artist, because she thought her stuff was too commercial! Seems you can't win with this one.

Ex art student here - no commercial success, its just my passion. I'm not an artist. I am a publican that paints, draws and scribbles. So does my 18 month dd. She isn't an artist either

Doesn't mean we are not creative just that we don't define ourselves that way. Introducing yourself as an artist is wanky even if you are an artist

Quite a few of my uni mates are real proper paid successful and popular bastards artists. They call themselves painters, sculptors etc. To my mind artist is a title that people should give you, not one that you adopt. It is a recognition of ability, creativity and technique. The creative process you do is what you are, being an artist is if you are any good. Being paid isn't the criteria for being able to be creative but an artist is someone who excels in a creative medium. IMHO.

I know of someone who describes themselves as an "unemployed model"! Now that I'm a SAHM I might do the same though unemployable as a model might be nearer the mark for me

YABU.

She'll already be aware that other people are sneering at the fact her career hasn't really taken off in a financially helpful way, so you don't need to rub it in even further.

There may even be some other reason why she can't do other work but she doesn't want to tell you.

Is it really any of your business? You don't sound like you want to be a good friend to her, TBH.

anothermadamebutterfly ah yes success in the art world is complicated. You can sell work and be an artist but it has to be to the right people. And you cant have too many people like you. Its a very fine line

Stephen King always says that a writer writes. So by that logic I suppose an artist...arts .

If I remember rightly he says it when people say to him "I'd love to be a writer but..." I think the point he wanted to make is that if someone loves writing then they will write and can call themselves a writer. They just can't call themselves a published or successful author, unless they are. But they can be a writer because a writer writes even if nobody reads it afterwards and even if they aren't successful or paid to do it.

I love SolidGold's ideas on what else she could describe herself as.

Were they 15 solo shows, or has she exhibited one or two pieces in 15 different open exhibitions at the local village hall?

Either way, if you as her friend have never seen her work, and she hardly talks about it, she sounds beyond useless at promoting and marketing her work.

I've been to many exhibitions where the work hasn't been that great, but there have been red stickers everywhere because the artist has bothered to tell people about it.

yanbu

CuppaTea there have always been some artists who are introverted and thoughtful, although very talented. You're right about marketing being why art sells. Sadly the biggest mouth often makes the most sales.

Picasso said 'I am not an artist, but a man who paints.'

I paint, and have sold a few things, but I don't try to make a living from it. I can't stop drawing, even if I'm watching telly, I just draw whatever comes on the screen. I love looking at art, taking pictures and reading about artists.

I wouldn't define an artist as someone who paints and gets paid for it, rather someone who has a creative mind and the drive to produce work.

YABU.

She makes art, therefore is an artist. It is irrelevant if anyone else finds the art worthwhile or not. Many artists, writers etc. have achieved their greatest success posthumously.

Also there are fashions in art, just like in music, so she may have a point about the critics.

She could be a crap artist.

From the sound of it she doesn't have anything else that could be the answer to "what do you do?" so why not say "artist" rather than "I don't work"?

Dh uncle makes a nice living from being an artist. I think he describes himself as a painter and illustrator. He was an art teacher, the head of art, then retired and now lives off his paintings and commissions. He was vice president of rws as well.

Think about some of the highly-paid artists, musicians, footballers, actors/singers/dancers out there. Some are very talented of course. But so many others are just marketing products with not much real ability. We have a culture of extroversion and "personality" these days.

When I was a little girl I wrote to Roger McGough to ask him how to become a poet. He very kindly wrote back and told me that if I wrote poems it meant I was a poet.

So there you go.

Well

I think the problem for some (many?) artists is that however great they may be, no-one will find out unless they are good at self-publicising. You need to work incredibly hard - networking, schmoozing, selling yourself and your work. A lot of people are really bad at that. Especially some people who are happiest shut away somewhere quietly with a load of art materials. There are agents and they take a huge % - and the problem again is that some people just haven't got the "making money" drive - their drive is to produce art.

Anyway.

I also find it odd that you have never seen any of her work. And I think you should lay off TBH - if she's happy and so are the people around her then so what? As for "what do you do" - it's a stupid question anyway which seeks to categorise people - and on that basis - her saying she is an artist is an appropriate response.

15 shows is pretty good going I think? From what I know anyway.

YANBU. DH has an ex colleague wh describes himself as an author, actor and director. What he means is that he paid to have a run of his awful novel published and has filmed himself acting badly with volunteers in his own awful play.
You will have to ask to look at some of her work and resport back.

I'm slightly on the side of the 'artist', TBH, - I can tell you that dedicating your life to an artistic endeavour (whatever that may be) which then doesn't make any money and causes people to consider you a failure in your chosen field is pretty heartbreaking.

I won't out myself too much, but I trained in an artistic field, had a few bits and pieces but have never been in a position to support myself exclusively through my art. As I get older and older, my hope ebbs that this is really going to be my life, and my heart very, very slowly breaks every time I have to tell people what I do. I have to decide whether to say 'I am a xxxxxx' and stay true to myself, my training, and my ambition, or whether I should just say 'I work in a call centre'. I loved my career, I wanted it more than anything, and I put my whole soul and heart into it. It has not worked out, and it is like being in the throws of a horrible breakup.

And I can tell you that it isn't just a case of if she was good, someone would have noticed. It just doesn't work like that. I'm not saying this to defend myself (I probably am rubbish ) but I can tell you from observation of my peers that there is very little correlation between success and talent.

But shows can be the local library or church or just hiring a room yourself . I wouldn,t have thought it meant anything if they are self funded.