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Original poster

Is she really 'an artist', or is she just crap?

226 replies

Nandocushion · 17/12/2011 06:32

I met my friend a few years ago and she told me, early on, that she was an artist. She didn't talk much more about it, and she was always short of money (if not in fact 'starving'), so I didn't really question it.

More recently, she's told me the rather sad history of her art career, and it was as follows: went to art school, had approximately 15 shows, never sold anything. Not. A. Thing.

She is now 30 years out of art school and has never sold a piece of art. She feels that critics have been biased.

I haven't seen her art. I have no idea what it is like, but I do assume that over the course of THIRTY YEARS, if she was good, someone would have noticed. And I also think, that if you have never ever ever made any sort of money, not even pennies, off being an artist, then maybe it's time you stopped calling yourself "an artist". Am I BU?

OP posts:
SantasStrapon · 17/12/2011 20:02

had approximately 15 shows, never sold anything. Not. A. Thing.

She is now 30 years out of art school and has never sold a piece of art.

She's shit if she's not sold anything in that amount of time, given that she's had shows. Does she exhibit locally, that sort of thing? That's what my mum does, she always sells everything she exhibits, and gets follow up calls for commissioned stuff.

rockinhippy · 17/12/2011 20:07

Claig I've always moved in very "arty" circles & I'm talking about people I actually know in RL & have known a LOT of the same type over the years (& it sounds like cheerfulyank does too) & these people are DEFINITELY not tryer - IMB tryers work incessantly for the love of it - even if they start out a bit ropey, there tenacious attitude means after a few years they've honed their art & their talent shines through - the people i'm talking about are basically lazy - & the arts are a good mask to hide behind IYSWIM

claig · 17/12/2011 20:08

But I agree that some are deluded about their talent. But sometimes, just like creators of works of fiction, it is better to live with a bit of fantasy than with cold, hard reality. It's that hope that keeps people going.

Artyjools · 17/12/2011 20:09

Blimey, rockinhippy, "wasters" is a bit keen, isn't it?

I recently took redundancy from a professional career for various reasons, but largely because I wanted to paint for a year or so. I had very nearly followed an artistic career, but took the academic route instead, and now, on the wrong side of 50, it was a now or never moment. I have sold a few paintings and have had a few commissions, but if I ever break even in this expensive hobby, I shall be dancing in the streets.

Am I "playing at it"? Am I entitled to call myself an artist? I guess it's not my call but it does make life difficult when people ask me what I do. Should I continue to define myself by my legal/academic career, am I a SAHM, or should I swallow hard and say "I am an artist". I am amazed that people think an artist is looking down their nose at people.Rreally, there are very few artists that can make a decent living out of it.

MayaAngelCool · 17/12/2011 20:11

Have only read a few posts. But I know a fair few artists, and it is extreeeeemely hard to carve out a career in art in this country. Nigh on impossible. The ones I know all have other jobs.

rockinhippy · 17/12/2011 20:11

But I agree that some are deluded about their talent. But sometimes, just like creators of works of fiction, it is better to live with a bit of fantasy than with cold, hard reality. It's that hope that keeps people going

MMmm - so long as the rest of us aren't having to pay for that pleasure, why is that fair on the poor sod who works their arse off in some lowly grimey job, when they have equal if not more talent, but to them its a hobby

PlumpDogPillionaire · 17/12/2011 20:12

claig - what rockin said, basically...
Noone's saying artists look down their noses at others, just that now and again some people who for whatever reason (usually familial bankrolling) choose to trump themselves up define themselves as 'artists' in a slightly self-aggrandising way, and with very little evidence that they're skilled or talented. And this can be irritating.

rockinhippy · 17/12/2011 20:13

artyjools - you definitely AREN"T the sort of "artist" I'm talking about :) - you sound as if you've more than earned that chance to give it ago :)

PlumpDogPillionaire · 17/12/2011 20:14

Perhaps those of us who've come to terms with 'cold hard reality' feel a bit miffed at those wallowing in the fluffy duvet of delusion? Grin

claig · 17/12/2011 20:15

Yes, some people are lazy etc. But does it really matter?, they still have an artistic temperament. Does it matter if they are not as good as other artists?

I like Keith Richards. I don't know if he is lazy or not, but he is definitely a rebel and I am not sure he would have been cut out to be an accountant. He is an artist - maybe not the best, but still an artist.

He made a great point in an interview. He said that when he writes his best songs, he doesn't try. He waits and listens. He said it is like an antenna above his head and he reads the signals that are transmitted to him and he is just the receiver. That is the inspiration of the artist, and often doesn't require effort and can appear lazy, but is just an artistic gift of an artistic soul.

PlumpDogPillionaire · 17/12/2011 20:18

You should swot up on some more Stones biogs, claig - there's some really interesting stuff about their 'influences' out there...

noddyholder · 17/12/2011 20:19

I don't think you should ever say something/one is shit if they have put part of themself into it.

claig · 17/12/2011 20:20

Plump, do you mean alcohol and harder substances?

PlumpDogPillionaire · 17/12/2011 20:21

Er, no, I mean older blues.

SantasStrapon · 17/12/2011 20:25

But after 30 years and not selling one single painting, it might well be time to concede that you are, actually, shit. It's no different from people who think they can write, but are never published.

Deluded then, rather than shit.

ditziness · 17/12/2011 20:25

Jeez what a load of bitter, narrow minded, materialistic people you are!

Personally I think that everyone is an artist, it's part of being human. Some people don't practise, some people don't realise, give their creativity that name, don't have the confidence etc, but in 20 years of making and reaching art I've never met anyone who isn't an artist somehow.

To me being an artist is recognising you have an unique way of looking at the world, deciphering it and expressing your opinion and feelings about it. And everyone does that in some way.

Society tends to call the ones the express themselves in an conventional way, style or medium "artists". but I think that it's far broader and more interesting than that. Art is all around us and so are artists.

I can't begin to say how boring and limited I think limiting a definition of art and artists to commercial success is.

rockinhippy · 17/12/2011 20:26

He made a great point in an interview. He said that when he writes his best songs, he doesn't try. He waits and listens. He said it is like an antenna above his head and he reads the signals that are transmitted to him and he is just the receiver. That is the inspiration of the artist, and often doesn't require effort and can appear lazy, but is just an artistic gift of an artistic soul

graig as I said above I've had a good career in the arts, so I can totally relate to that & Keith obviously has talent as a musician, & thats allowed him the luxury of trying his hand at art - he's worked for it

I'm talking about people, who DON"T have any real talent, so are not tuned into that "antenna" & still don't work, preferring to market themselves as the tortured starving artist - trust me its just as irksome to those with talent as it is none artists, as it gets artist/musicians etc a bad name -

funny though thinking further on the self-aggrandising type comments - out of the many artists (etc) I've known - it's the talentless waster types who are more prone to doing this - really put themselves up there on this high pedestal & look down at others as being too straight & boring etc etc - the REAL talent I personally know, never does this - mmm

claig · 17/12/2011 20:26

Life is an act, we are all creating reality out of our own fantasy. We imagine that we are good at x, y, z. The artist does too. The artist has to believe that they have talent, whatever a critic may say, because otherwise there would be no point trying. The people who still call themselves artists, who have not dropped out of the race, still believe and may create that reality, but the rest have given up and are out of it.

SantasStrapon · 17/12/2011 20:29

Hmm, but the majority of 'artists' appear to have a day job. They're not wallowing in self pity whilst holding their paw out for another handout. And there are people out there without an ounce of talent, who are deluded enough to think they are amazing. Probably not helped by the culture of nobody losing, everybody being brilliant at everything, failure swept under the carpet.

There's nothing wrong with not being able to do something. There's plenty wrong if you are unable to admit that to yourself.

claig · 17/12/2011 20:30

But is it the case that those who have no real passion for art, eventually drop out and do something else? Aren't the ones who stay the course, the ones who are committed and passionate, even if they are not necessarily very talented. Maybe they can improve their skills.

SantasStrapon · 17/12/2011 20:33

I had six long years of piano lessons. Six years of torture and utter hell during lessons. I do not have a musical bone in my body, I'm tone deaf, can't carry a tune at all, and will never be even a mediocre musician. I am utterly useless at music. But at least I recognise that there are some things that cannot be taught unless you have an affinity for them. The Arts are some of those things.

claig · 17/12/2011 20:34

Van Gogh had mainly failure throughout his life and realised that he lacked many skills and went to study further to rectify them. People probably wrote him off as an artist, but he had that passion and belief that drove him on. He also made ends meet by doing other jobs, but whatever everyone else said, he always saw himself as an artist.

nativitywreck · 17/12/2011 20:36

"these characters are also often the ones that think doing the leg work to get a foot in the door of a chosen field is beneath them"

Yep, this is my Ex, exactly.
Even when he does get a break he won't capitalise on his opportunities because he seems to think, because he is so good at what he does, that it will somehow just "happen", and he thinks shmoozing a bit to get more opportunities is beneath him.
He also thinks getting a normal job to subsidise himself (and his son) while he works towards the big dream is un-doable.

I know several people in artistic careers and they have all worked bloody hard to get to do it for a living.

claig · 17/12/2011 20:38

I agree it is about having an affinity for art.

Scoundrel · 17/12/2011 20:38

Blimey, I'm married to an artist. It's quite nice! I had no idea that people had such strong opinions about his profession.

If you're that shallow then you might like to know that he's bloody good looking and uses his cock well. What happens to his work after he's dead is of little interest to me as I won't be there.