To think friend's should help out with childcare, not be the childcare themselves.

[pingu2209]

My friendship network all help each other out here and there. From borrowing clothes, kitchen items to giving lifts and looking after children if the mum/dad can't get back from work in time to pick up etc. I am sure this is all very normal stuff all around the country.

I believe I am particularly helpful as I look after one friend's children every morning, so I don't think I can be accused of being a 'taker' of favours and not a 'giver'.

I am unsure how to handle a situation with a different friend. She started a job in September working 1 day a week, although sometimes 2. The hours she works mean she can drop her children off, but not pick them up from school.

However, my friend has not set up any formal after school club childcare and every week, about Wednesday, asks whether any of our network could pick up her children and look after them till 5.30.

A couple of us have commented (amongst ourselves, which I realise is not very nice) that we are feeling more than a little taken advantage of. We all work, and we all work far more hours than our friend does each week, but we have all set up formal childcare for our children.

Clearly friendship is give and take, and it is important to help our friends out, but in my view, that is normally when the usual childcare has broken down, it is not to be the actual sole childcare.

I was asked this week to pick up and look after my friend's children. I said yes but something came up during the day that meant I couldn't do it. As my friend (call her A) was already in work, I asked a mutual friend (call her B) if she could take the children home with her instead. B said yes and together we texted A to let her know.

However, an hour before school pick up, B phoned me to say that something had come up with her too. I phoned and texted A to try to get through but the phone went to answer phone. Eventually I phoned A's work and explained that due to unforseen circumstances neither B nor I could pick up her children.

A burst into tears and said that it would cause her a lot of trouble at her work. I said I was sorry but it wasn't B or my fault that something had come up and that this is what all working parents deal with every now and again.

She is a single mum but because she works less than 20 hours a week, she doesn't get any government help towards childcare costs. Therefore, she doesn't want the majority of her money going towards childcare. She earns about £42 net a day, childcare after school would cost £30.

It isn't just me getting fed up and to be frank A's tears just pissed me off as I felt she was using emotional blackmail. However, my personal circumstances had changed that day (to do with my eldest child and something that had to be dealt with).

Am I being unreasonable and mean to take this attitude?

YANBU. She needs to organise some childcare. Even if that is just a regular (and hopefully reciprocal) arrangement with one or two friends. She can't hope to "arrange" this on an ad-hoc basis every bloody week surely?!?

It's shit that she'd only end up with £12 a day if she had to get childcare, but that's not your responsibility.

You're not being unreasonable at all to feel put upon and that she's taking the piss, and I would say to say no to her if you can't pick up her DC and let her deal with it.

You can see what will happen if it carries on, it was you and your friend trying to sort her DC out when you couldn't pick them up!

Pingu - how is the morning thing going now?

I think your friend is being unreasonable relying on you & your friends in this haphazard way - she needs a plan in place. I can see why she can't really afford the after school club though. Is there anyway two of the group could have her children every week and then she has theirs (or someone elses) on the days she isn't working? Then other people can help out if it falls through?

It's hard to say, not knowing why you pulled out, if YABU or not - but I think once you have agreed to pick someone's child up from school then unless it's life & death you do it unless someone else can do it. I really don't think it's on to ring the same day to say it's no longer convenient. Could you not have taken hers with you to whatever you were doing for your eldest?

Sadly Grumpla, I think this is exactly what she intends to do. It has happened for 4 months now and in the past 2 weeks she has been working 2 days a week and expecting one of three other mums to do the childcare for her.

I was thinking of saying "A, I don't mind looking after your children after school on a play date every now and then, but I am really tired after school as work is so busy. Also as we do so many other clubs etc after school I don't have many free days so I really can't do it every week. If you need me to look after your children, I am happy to do it once every 3 weeks"

Of course this means that our other friends B and C will need to pick up the slack. However, I already know that B's husband has put his foot down about A's children coming over so much!

YANBU. However, I am astonished that one session of after school care would cost £30. How many children does she have?

How can it cost £30 to go to afterschool club one day a week? She needs to work more days then really. Either way, this is not your problem

You are a bloody saint you are, what with the morning stuff too. Or a mug - not sure which

It would cost £18 per day for each child for after-school club in my town. So if the £30 is for 2 dc - then that is cheaper than the £36 I would have to pay for my 2 primary age dc.

And by the way, OP - your friend is talking guff. WTC pay 70% of the weekly childcare costs for any Lone Parent working over 16 hours a week, not 20. And that is up to a total of 70% of £300 a week - or £210 - that they will pay for two (or more) dc. Your friend needs to find registered childcare. 30% of £60, to cover the two days a week, is only £18 a week, for two days after school care that SHE would need to pay. So only £9 a day, for two dc.

She's taking you for a ride, OP!!

OH god - you're not the poster who has had all the crap with the woman dropping her dc off early too, and then not having the dc ready when you get there to pick them up, are you? If so - PUT YOUR FOOT DOWN, SHE IS A TOTAL PISS-TAKER IF IT IS THE SAME WOMAN!!

Chipping - mornings are finished today till the New Year (end of term today). I am relieved. However, I have had the 'conversation' with my friend and she has so far been okay with it all. She knows I will drive off now so in the New Year she is either there or she isn't. I have decided to give it till the end of Jan and if I am finding it all too tough then I will stop doing it altogether. What I did say to her was that she needs to have a plan B for her childcare because if one of my children are ill, or I am ill etc I will not be able to take her children to breakfast club. She is thinking about this at the moment as currently there is no plan B.

The fact I have 5 children in the morning (3 are my own, 2 are my friends) is the reason I don't want to look after yet 2 more children after school on a regular basis. I am getting really stressed out with it all, I can't properly rest or relax as I constantly have other people's children round!

The reason I couldn't look after my friend's 2 children this week was because my eldest son had torn a massive hole (playing football in the playground) in his shoe and as the weather had turned (snow today) I needed to urgently get him a new pair of shoes.

We live in the middle of nowhere so I needed to drive to the nearest town and go shopping. That is a nightmare enough with 3 children to drag round, let alone 5. I'm not sure that is a good enough reason or not. The thing is normally if you have someone's child after school it is for a play date, and if something happens during the day, it is not a big issue. The fact is friend A doesn't see it as a play date, she sees us as childcare.

Friend B's youngest child had had a huge row with a child at school and the school had asked her to come in early and collect as there were issues between the 2 sets of parents too. That is why she couldn't pick up A's children.

There are only 3 of us who look after A's children. 80% of the time it is me and B who do the childcare, the other friend is far less and would never look after A's children on a very regular basis. B and I are getting seriously pissed off with it.

(Oh - and I'm a Lone Parent, who is has epilepsy that means I can't drive - and I still managed to work in the past, when I had to catch a bus to the Nursery, drop off DS2, get a bus to the breakfast club, drop off Ds1 and DD, and THEN get a bus to work, all before 9am!).

Your friend is taking advantage of you AND lying about the lack of help from TC's.

£30 a day! The after school club I use charges less than £20 for a full day during the holidays. It's not your job to provide regular childcare, so yanbu to be fed up. She really needs to find a more permanent solution.

I do think you're a bit unreasonable to have pulled out. Of course it depends if it were something very important. I wouldn't do that to a friend if I knew they were relying on me in such a way.

I don't know what I'd do in your situation. Probably start saying no more as soon as I'm asked, even if you are available. When I was a sahm I had to do that with one person. Giving the odd lift soon turned into being a taxi and then looking after the child for an hour everyday.

is this the same friend who's kids you take to school?

Sorry misread part of your post, you said children not child. I can see 2 or 3 children costing £30.

I think the reality is that friend A doesn't want to work 16+ hours a week (I work 27.5 hours!). When she cried down the phone she said that without 'our' help she will have to give up work and she is really struggling financially.

It is a different friend I help in the morning to the friend who asks me to help after school once a week, although they both have 2 children.

I do sometimes think that there is a view by other mums, that if you have 3 or more children, what does it matter if another 1 or 2 children join the crowd.

I am not looking forward to having the conversation with friend A regarding only looking after her children once very 3 weeks as it is too much every week/fortnight.

In the New Year am also considering calling the friend whose children I look after each morning, to say that I am ill and won't be going into work, therefore won't be going to breakfast club, therefore can't pick up her 2 children. This will force her to look into a plan B. I strongly believe plan B won't be put into place otherwise.

So hang on a minute, you've got Wait On The Corner's children in the morning and No After School Club's children in the afternoon? WTAF? You're in the wrong business, you'd seriously be better off as a childminder. That level of 'helping out' friends is ridiculous.

If childcare provision is so bad/non existent where you live what is everyone else doing? Quite apart from the obvious gap in the local market, it sounds like you're picking up the slack for half the school.

I've said this before on your other posts Pingu; your so-called friend is taking the piss and is being a user. If you want to keep helping her then you need to lay down very firm boundaries, as it sounds like you have done regarding the mornings.

however, with the buying shoes thing, I wouldn't have let someone down at the last minute over that I'm afraid, so I can kind of see why she was upset.

Ah just seen it's different friends. Well it does sound like they're both taking the pee, but like I said I think boundaries are in order for both friends/childcare help.

you need to say that you;re really sorry to have (had to) let her down this time, comment that it must be stressful for her to be making ad hoc arrangements each work and suggest that permanent arrangements would do away with the stress and make last minute changes less likely. Given the cost implications Grumpla is right - that the sensible thing to sort would be something reciprocal. YADNBU

To be honest, I do think the shoes thing sounds very weak. However, we knew snow was coming and very cold wet weather too. He tore his shoe (think of sole of his shoe flapping when he walked) that day, and the school phoned me to bring in another pair. However, a) I was at work and b) he only has 1 pair of shoes so I needed to buy shoes that evening to ensure he had shoes for the rest of the school week.

Yes I could have brought the other 2 children shoe shopping but I really really really didn't want to go shopping with 5 children in tow - all under 8!

If it was a play date, I would have had no qualms in cancelling the play date and rearranging. However, it is the fact I was her childcare. Except I am not a childminder and I had just done 6 hours at work.

huntycat £18 per child / per day for after school care?! Thats mad. Its £6.50 here.

As for this lady saying she is paying £30, quite frankly I don't believe her.

I have formal arrangements in place for my childcare, which means if something goes wrong (eg this week the childminder who takes DD to school was sick 2 mornings), I can ask a friend and know that she doesn't mind because i am not taking the piss.

Tell her you are happy being emergency back up but you have to put the needs of your family first.

It's harsh but it's really not your problem whether or not she has to give up work. And I disagree about the shoes. It was something you had to do. It might not have been the most important thing in the world but nonetheless, it's a good example of other people's lack of organisation impinging on your life and preventing you from getting on with it all.

I have spoken to friend A about putting her children into after school club but she refuses to spend the money. She said (her words) "I would rather use friends and family".

Well I feel I am being USED. As does friend B.

Neither of us have said this to friend A. However, what we are doing is saying no if asked. Or if we are put on the spot and say yes, we are then cancelling a day later with a ready made excuse that we have had time to think about.

However, when friend B cancels, I am then asked and vice versa.

Friend A is the friend who asked me to have her children for the day on the 28th December and overnight on the 2nd January - if you remember my other post.

You have two friends that take you for a mug? You need to grow a pair, OP!

So she isn't working 16+ hours a week, despite working for two days? I don't get that? are her shifts only 7.5 hrs or something? I do know a lot of unscrupulous employers take people on on 15hr contracts, that are JUST unde rthe 16 hrs needed for TC's, but then ask those people to do 16-20hrs. Or more. If that's the case, then she either needs to ask her employer to up her contract hours to 16, and if he won't, then she either finds a new job, or gives up work.

Oh dear God, I didn't see the December/January thread. You're either a saint or quite quite bonkers.

Why would an employer do that? What benefit is it to them to get staff at under 16 hours?

Friend A works 7 hour days and only works 1 day a week contractually - although she is being asked more regularly to work 2 days a week. Even then it is only 14 hours.

I do need to grow a pair! This often happens to me. I offer to help someone and be nice and a kind - like a friend should be. Then I end up 'helping' far more than I had originally intended. It sort of creeps up on you. First you are helping for a few hours and then all of a sudden it is a whole day etc.

Gwendoline - I said no to the 28th Dec and 2nd Jan. I only said no today though and friend A was really dissapointed. I said that I was sorry but it would encroach too much into family time over the Christmas and New Year period.

She is working on the 28th Dec. She had already asked friend B.

I'm not sure what she will do..