To think friend's should help out with childcare, not be the childcare themselves.

[pingu2209]

My friendship network all help each other out here and there. From borrowing clothes, kitchen items to giving lifts and looking after children if the mum/dad can't get back from work in time to pick up etc. I am sure this is all very normal stuff all around the country.

I believe I am particularly helpful as I look after one friend's children every morning, so I don't think I can be accused of being a 'taker' of favours and not a 'giver'.

I am unsure how to handle a situation with a different friend. She started a job in September working 1 day a week, although sometimes 2. The hours she works mean she can drop her children off, but not pick them up from school.

However, my friend has not set up any formal after school club childcare and every week, about Wednesday, asks whether any of our network could pick up her children and look after them till 5.30.

A couple of us have commented (amongst ourselves, which I realise is not very nice) that we are feeling more than a little taken advantage of. We all work, and we all work far more hours than our friend does each week, but we have all set up formal childcare for our children.

Clearly friendship is give and take, and it is important to help our friends out, but in my view, that is normally when the usual childcare has broken down, it is not to be the actual sole childcare.

I was asked this week to pick up and look after my friend's children. I said yes but something came up during the day that meant I couldn't do it. As my friend (call her A) was already in work, I asked a mutual friend (call her B) if she could take the children home with her instead. B said yes and together we texted A to let her know.

However, an hour before school pick up, B phoned me to say that something had come up with her too. I phoned and texted A to try to get through but the phone went to answer phone. Eventually I phoned A's work and explained that due to unforseen circumstances neither B nor I could pick up her children.

A burst into tears and said that it would cause her a lot of trouble at her work. I said I was sorry but it wasn't B or my fault that something had come up and that this is what all working parents deal with every now and again.

She is a single mum but because she works less than 20 hours a week, she doesn't get any government help towards childcare costs. Therefore, she doesn't want the majority of her money going towards childcare. She earns about £42 net a day, childcare after school would cost £30.

It isn't just me getting fed up and to be frank A's tears just pissed me off as I felt she was using emotional blackmail. However, my personal circumstances had changed that day (to do with my eldest child and something that had to be dealt with).

Am I being unreasonable and mean to take this attitude?

It strikes me that you are prepared to look after friend X's children (you don't assign her a letter, so I've done it) EVERY morning, yet when Friend A asks you to look after her children, you feel 'used'.

What is different about your relationship with A than X?

I can see it from friend A's point of view. If you haven't told her there is a problem with the way she is doing things, then she sees all these excuses as 'unfortunate circumstances'.

OP your post at 14.37 explains well your reason for resenting the afternoon friend whilst not resenting the morning friend.

Do you see the morning friend as more deserving of help as she works harder than the afternoon one? I can see how that would grate.

You possibly feel taken advantage of because you work hard whilst she is at home most of the time then - adds to your workload!

I was going to say you're mean helping one friend over another but I think YANBU in these circumstances.

Friend X is working hard to get herself out of benefits. She works 6 hours a day, 5 days a week. She is paying for childcare (breakfast club) but can't get her children to breakfast club because it starts at 8am but she has to be at work for 8am. She works 16+ hours a week (at the same place as friend A) so gets 70% of her childcare paid for.

Friend A could pay for childcare but has elected not to because she doesn't earn enough to pay for it. So she USES friends instead, except there aren't enough friends to share the work load thinly. She elects not to work over 16 hours because she wants to be at home and in her garden. If she worked 16+ hours she would get 70% of her child care paid for by the government and she wouldn't need to use friends unless it was an emergency.

The situation with friend A crept up on me. Firstly it was 'could you pick them up and I will be back by 5.30'. Then it was 'I really need help as my mum has let me down'. Except her mum let her down practically every week. Before I knew it, friend B and I were her first port of call each week - not her mum.

YANBU at all! You are just going to have to tell A that she either finds formal childcare, or working 1 day a week is not financially viable and that she would have to increase her hours to get tax credits for childcare or stay at home and look after her children.

My goodness friend A cannot have her cake and eat it, you have to be tough and stop being taken for a ride. You have to be frank with friend A just as you are friend x and the lift giving.

I think that you need to sit down with your friend and explain to her, very kindly, that "using" friends and family for regular, work-related childcare is not an option and never will be.

Friend A has to sort herself out and make her own arrangements. Friend X is one thing and you've worked hard to sort out a solution that semi-suits you both, but friend A is taking the piss.

She's alienating all her friends by the sound of it, not just you. what's going to happen when she inevitably has a genuine emergency? Everyone'll be so pissed off with her by then that she won't see them for dust.

you need to be tough, i'm afraid. I had a v similar situation where someone i knew was saying about how difficult it was etc etc. I said to her that if she was ever really stuck, i left work early that day to take dcs swimming and as long as her dd didnt mind tagging along, i would be happy to take her in an emergency.

5 weeks on the bounce she had no childcare. told me that her dh would pick up at 5.30 and he arrived at 7.30. I was frank with her, told her that i paid for childcare and left early to spend time with my dds, not hers. that i would not collect her again. the following week, the teacher came rushing out and said- mrs x told me that you were collecting her dd. i stood my ground and suggested that the teacher take her along to the afterschool club and get them to prepare an invoice.

she told the teacher that you would be collecting her dc even after you had spoken to her so clearly about not being prepared to do it!

Even at the risk of friendship I would say something. If the arrangement isn't reciprocal then it isn't working. As your friend is being unreasonable it is fine to say just 'no, sorry I can't'. I think it would also be acceptable for you to add that it seems like the arrangement to pick up children seems to be more frequent than you originally expected and you would like to put something a bit more formal in place so that you all know where you are AND so you can help each other. Plan what would work for you and invite her to coffee and stick to your guns. I would also arrange a probation period of a few weeks as a get out clause. If you arrange for her to look after the children during the school holidays in return for after school care - this gives you a chance to make sure it happens. I would make it clear that if the arrangement wasn't mutually beneficial it would need to stop.

I work from home and find that people do assume that because I drop off and pick up that I am available to help out. It is tricky especially when one mum talks about how difficult it is to need to take a day off to look after an ill child. I was first port of call before her DH and her put upon in-laws. There is helping each other out and taking the piss and your friend is taking the piss - you already know this. Good luck.

Wow pingu having read your previous thread and now this one I think you actually beat me at the 'lack of assertiveness' olympics, and I thought I was the undefeated champion. Try the following phrases (some of this is cut and pasted from an e-mail my Dnephew sent me for me to memorise and use verbatim in my own situations!)

• I'm not very available right now
• That's not going to work for me
• I'm afraid you won't be able to rely on me - especially after last time I wouldn't want to promise and then let you down, and I know I'm over-committed
• There's a lot going on for me/the DCs
• I need a bit more notice - perhaps we could sit down with B and C and come up with a reciprocal arrangement? Ad hoc just isn't possible for me at the moment.

And as a follow up when she complains about the awkward position she's in "Sorry to hear that. It's a struggle, isn't it? I find it really hard too." (nod, smile, sympathetic face). With every complaint agree with her, and add "I know, tell me about it, I'm paying £x in childcare myself and even then I always need a back up plan. Nightmare, isn't it?"

Very good tips there :)

I like the idea of moaning back when she moans about how tough it is. That's a real cul-de-sac of a conversation and will get her absolutely nowhere :o

And That's not going to work for me is a really good all-rounder.

It would be far more honest to sit her down and talk to her than just coming up with excuses on a case by case basis. Which to be honest is a tad passive aggressive. She clearly isn't someone who is going to take a hint.

A good response if someone puts you on the spot, Pingu, is "Let me get back to you on that one". Then later you can phone or text "It's going to have to be a no for next Tuesday, got a very busy afternoon". Don't apologise or expand on the reason why not.

If she says something like "Are you busy every day during the holidays?", then say "I am quite busy, what did you have in mind?" then you can do the "I'll get back to you". If she asks "Are you taking the children swimming on Friday", reply with "I'm not certain yet, they've been very naughty/tired/had colds this week" and then you again can do the "Let me get back to you".

The key is persevering; she WILL get the message but you need to be consistent and keep saying no after no after no.

Some people just don't get that they cannot constantly call on other for favours that they have no intention of ever reciprocating. It's worth realising this, as it helps you get firm with them!

Pingu, just say NO. I think that its a rather shitty thing to agree to minding X's kids because you are put on the spot and then cancel at a later point as it leaves even less time for X to sort out an alternative and that is more likely to ruin your friendship than saying no at the outset.

I know I must come across as a whimp by struggling to say no to a friend. I'm not sure why I find it so hard. I don't like saying to anyone that I just don't want their/their child's company - I don't think it is a very nice thing to hear so I don't want to be the one to say it I guess.

I hope you don't mind me saying this Pingu but they dont' sound like true friends. They probably know that you are a pushover so use your good nature to get you to do favours for them constantly. I used to be the same as you but it is so liberating saying no. Some people do fall out with you but then you know they weren't proper friends in the first place and were out for what they could get.

Pingu - I think you should read all of your own posts again. I know you say you don't want this to affect your friendship, but really - how much of a friend is she? She's ungrateful, she's unwilling to help you out & she's not asking for an occasional favour - she's relying on you for childcare because she doesn't want to work (like you do) or pay for childcare (which she can afford to do but doesn't want to). She wants to stay home & play at 'house & garden' and is using her inheritance to do so (total fool if you ask me) and she is using YOU to earn money which she doesn't actually need, just wants without paying for childcare...???

Of course it doesn't feel nice to say 'No, I don't want to have your children' but I think you need to understand that you aren't saying that, you are saying 'I don't want to be USED by you because you are a selfish cow'.

FFS Pingu - she isn't even willing to have your children in the holidays when you work!! She should be doing that without you having to take the day off to have hers, for all the childcare you have been doing for her after school.

You are a lovely, lovely person - you are incredibly kind and giving, but she is taking advantage of that and it's your family that's suffering and just so she can play at working cos she fancies it.

You need to tell A that using friends in this way is just that - using

if she wants to lose those friends eventually, she is going the right way about it.

My post would not be so harsh if it were the case that she were in a real financial bind, or trying to work towards getting off benefits.

But the details astonish me. She has a private income, doesn't need to work, but fancies a top up of her income by doing one day a week, but doesn't want to shoulder the true cost of that. She wants her friends to do that for her. She essentially wants you to take on some of her 'working' for her. She's 'earning back' the cost of childcare and getting the money for it, but you're doing that work.

Would she ask you if you fancied paying her tax for her, as she doesn't want that 'docked' from her income either?

Maybe explain it to her in those terms and she might see how utterly inappropriate she is being.

LOVE wimp spelled with a H

WHIMP

So much more satisfying!

Also have a secret love for 'hampster' with a P

Sorry for derailing OP

Oh Pingu, you need some new friends. These aren't friends, they're using you.

What TardlyWhiptrack said. She is taking the piss in a big way.

The 16 hrs a week rule is being abolished - childcare claims will be available regardless of the number of hours worked - see DWP website.

I always imagine myself using but am too much of a coward to do so use Phoebe's line from Friends - can't be beaten:

'Oh, I wish I could but I don't want to.'