To think friend's should help out with childcare, not be the childcare themselves.

[pingu2209]

My friendship network all help each other out here and there. From borrowing clothes, kitchen items to giving lifts and looking after children if the mum/dad can't get back from work in time to pick up etc. I am sure this is all very normal stuff all around the country.

I believe I am particularly helpful as I look after one friend's children every morning, so I don't think I can be accused of being a 'taker' of favours and not a 'giver'.

I am unsure how to handle a situation with a different friend. She started a job in September working 1 day a week, although sometimes 2. The hours she works mean she can drop her children off, but not pick them up from school.

However, my friend has not set up any formal after school club childcare and every week, about Wednesday, asks whether any of our network could pick up her children and look after them till 5.30.

A couple of us have commented (amongst ourselves, which I realise is not very nice) that we are feeling more than a little taken advantage of. We all work, and we all work far more hours than our friend does each week, but we have all set up formal childcare for our children.

Clearly friendship is give and take, and it is important to help our friends out, but in my view, that is normally when the usual childcare has broken down, it is not to be the actual sole childcare.

I was asked this week to pick up and look after my friend's children. I said yes but something came up during the day that meant I couldn't do it. As my friend (call her A) was already in work, I asked a mutual friend (call her B) if she could take the children home with her instead. B said yes and together we texted A to let her know.

However, an hour before school pick up, B phoned me to say that something had come up with her too. I phoned and texted A to try to get through but the phone went to answer phone. Eventually I phoned A's work and explained that due to unforseen circumstances neither B nor I could pick up her children.

A burst into tears and said that it would cause her a lot of trouble at her work. I said I was sorry but it wasn't B or my fault that something had come up and that this is what all working parents deal with every now and again.

She is a single mum but because she works less than 20 hours a week, she doesn't get any government help towards childcare costs. Therefore, she doesn't want the majority of her money going towards childcare. She earns about £42 net a day, childcare after school would cost £30.

It isn't just me getting fed up and to be frank A's tears just pissed me off as I felt she was using emotional blackmail. However, my personal circumstances had changed that day (to do with my eldest child and something that had to be dealt with).

Am I being unreasonable and mean to take this attitude?

She said "I would rather use friends and family"
well where are her family then if you and your friend can't help?

Each of your friends on their own isn't being that bad (although they are relying on friendship more than they should), but add them together and they are both putting you under more pressure than you should be, looking after other people's children.

I think the shoes were an emergency - your own children's needs can't come second to providing free childcare for someone else's kids. You couldn't send your ds to school the following day in no shoes, so what else were you to do? I think when you have 3+ kids, adding an extra one or two is a big deal.

I think it's a bad idea to say yes and then say no, when you've had a chance to come up with an excuse. Apart from anything else, she will keep asking you and this situation will never go away. Better to bite the bullet and be honest - tell her you are tired after work and want to just look after your own children.

Her mother lives in the village too. Except her mother is elderly and won't look after her grandchildren even on a weekly basis after school, every now and again she does - about once a fortnight. Seriously - her own mother won't commit to once a week for what amounts to 2 hours after school!!

Yesterday friend A's mother said that she is not up to looking after the children for 7 hours during the day on the days friend A works during the school holidays.

Friend A knew that her mother would refuse to babysit for a whole day, that is why she had already asked friend B and myself to look after her children for the day on the 28th December.

Friend B and I have discussed (yes okay 'bitched') about friend A's mother's attitude. If a grandmother won't look after her own (and only) grandchildren - why on earth should friend B and I?

I know it isn't right to say yes knowing that you will go away and think of a good excuse to cancel. However, I'm not good at coming up with a plausable 'no' - I tend to dither.

Nonetheless, friend A also has a habbit of asking in a 'round about way'. Friend A will ask, "What are you doing between Christmas and New Year?" or "Are you taking the children swimming on Friday after school?" That kind of question - you get caught out! My answer may be "nothing much" or something. I am then asked if I can look after her children. I then can't say no outright because I have already said I'm not doing much.

I know that many of you will say that I should just say 'no, sorry but even though I am not doing anything, I don't want to look after your children.' But if you are honest, that will affect our friendship.

Have any of you got other things I can learn off pat so that I can just say them quickly. I had thought of, "I need to check my diary..." but if she has already asked if I am up to anything that line doesn't work.

Or "son of pingu is really tired, I think he is coming down with something, he really needs to rest when he gets home..."

It is hard because she picks up at 5 - 5.30 so it isn't exactly late.

Do you have an OH OP? I ask because my DH would get annoyed on my behalf if I was on your situation and would feel I was being taken advantage of.

It's not the point though, it's still getting in your way. Why should you have to constantly be afraid of telling someone where you're taking your children because you think they'll want you to take theirs too? Why should your son go to school with no shoes because someone else doesn't want to sort their own children out?

Helping out every so often is one thing but it sounds like it's completely out of hand. DH was railroaded into giving lifts to and from work to a colleague. We had just started going out and DH was having to cancel dates in order to take this bloke home. It was absurd.

do you have a partner? If she asks if you are doing anything, can you answer "yes dh is organising something!"

I know you think saying no will affect your friendship, but looking at it the other way round, her expecting this of you is affecting your friendship. I would not do that, however, I'm not in her position. Surely she would be better trying to get 16 hours plus at work and then getting help with childcare.

Yes, I have a dh. He is getting worried about me. He thinks I am getting very stressed by it all but that I should be cancelling the morning help I give, not the after school help.

It doesn't matter to him as he catches a very early train in the mornings and comes home at 7.45pm.

I don't want to stop helping my friend in the mornings because my view is 'at least she is working hard and wants to get off benefits'. I will stop if I gets too much, but at least I know my friend is trying her best - even though it is chaotic and sometimes that affects me too.

My friend in the afternoon, however, is lazy. He refuses to work even 16 hours a week. Not because of how it affects other benefits (because she isn't on benefits due to an inheritance). She doesn't want to do more than 1 day a week because she likes to be at home. BTW - her words are "I'm a home body - I enjoy my home and my garden. I want to spend my time at home".

I think that if you don't want to be confrontational you will have to be on your guard constantly and vague about your plans, you always have to be "not sure" what is happening at the weekend or Tuesday after school or whatever.

The reason employers offer 15hr contracts is, as far as I can work out, to do with extra paperwork involved (more admin?) and also they have to pay employer NI contributions for anyone working 16+ hrs, even if that person doesn't earn enough to PAY tax and NI. Because once you are working 16hrs+, you no longer get NI credits from your IS/JSA.

So they do it to save themselves money, as an employer. It's SHIT when you can't find a 16+hr job when you are a LP. And a LOT of jobs now are like this. And if her contract is only 7hrs - then she will also still be on JSA, and getting a bit of her wages for the first day deducted from her JSA, and ALL of the wages from her second day - she is basically working for free that day, to get in her employers good books.

Puts a whole new spin on it if she is only doing 14 hrs a week, IMO. She is trying her best to get back to work, she can't find a job getting 16hrs+ locally (you do sound fairly rural, without many employment opportunities nearby), she is doing her best, can't get help with childcare, gets anything above £20 a week earnings deducted from her JSA - so she is, in essence, working for just £1.43 an hour on top of her JSA when she is doing two days work a week...and that's still not much better when she is only doing one day, it is still only £2.86 an hour on top of her JSA. .

I think she DOES want to work more hours, but can't find a job with 16+ hours. In that case, I don't think it is as much her taking the piss out of you, as much as her employer taking the piss out of her. She may have even be threatened with the sack if she refuses the extra hours. I've been there.

. It IS an imposition. But if she normally only works one day a week - is she just doing the extra hours near Christmas, for her employer?

Another point is that if both her dc are school-age, she will be on JSA, and she may have been FORCED to take this job. With the threat of all her benefits being stopped if she doesn't do it. And then she is treated like crap by her employer, who knows that he can tell her to do the extra hours or he will sack her - and then the JobCentre will sanction her benefits (i.e. stop up to 40% of them). .

Paints a whole different picture for me if she is only working on a 7hrs a week contract, yet doing 14hrs.

I don't know, OP - I think you need to sit down with her, and ask WHY she is doing a job where she is only contracted to do 7 hrs, and why she doesn't look for a job doing 16+ hrs? If you are semi-rural, with bad public transport, the logistics might mean that anything more than 16/20 hrs might be too much, with travelling time added on - but she still needs to find a job doing 16+ hrs, or give up work IMO...UNLESS the JobCentre has MADE her take this job - in which case, I would be MUCH more inclined to help.

If she is doing 16hrs, and not claiming childcare help from TC's, then she is taking the piss, if she is only doing 7-14 hrs and still on JSA, then IMo she isn't taking the piss as much.

HTH.

AH! X-posted. In which case, I would have no problem saying that she IS a mahoooooosive piss-taker, and I would say NO! Most emphatically!

Say your DH doesn't want you having her children so often.

Pingu - I think you are just going to have to be blunt. Tell her that you can no longer have her children after school. You have three of your own and work - you have stuff that needs doing and you just don't have the time to have hers as well. She can pout all she likes - but it's not your problem. It is one thing to help friends out, it's quite another to be taken for a ride - and you are.

You will also be doing her children a favour - it must be quite unsettling for them never knowing who will pick them up etc. She needs to work 16+ hours a week or not at all. This is not your problem

Having said I'd do it, I'd have taken all 5 kids to the shops - whilst cursing under my breath.

HuntyCat - I take my hat off to you mate! Lone parent and can't drive due to epilepsy - I'd be on my knees!

Well she's not going to be able to choose to work such short hours in January/once her youngest turns 5 because they are changing the benefit rules. She is going to have to try and find a job with longer hours.

I'm sure you're a very nice person but if I were you I'd be a bit worried if so many of my friends were taking me for such a mug. Anyone who would end your friendship over you not wanting to look after their children for free for several hours a week isn't much of a friend IMO.

HuntyCat thanks for the explanation - I even tried to Google but got nowhere!

My friend A is not claiming JSA. She isn't claiming at all. Her children are both 7 (twins) and she was getting Income Allowance at £40ish a week but that has now stopped. She was told she would need to sign on in order to continue getting some benefits, however, she decided she didn't want to sign on as the place is so far away and she would need to go by train.

Her inheritance was 'substantial' and she is living off this rather than claiming. The job is purely to top up her income. An extra £40ish a week is great. Except she doesn't want to work and pay most of it on childcare.

I think from now on I will say I will need to check with mr Pingu as I think he may be working from home that day. Walk away and then think of a better excuse.

"Have any of you got other things I can learn off pat so that I can just say them quickly"

Remember - no is a complete sentence. Or just say "that doesn't work for me".

As an aside, when I asked whether we could confirm that during the holidays I would take 1 day a week holiday to look after her children (on the day she works), and in return she could look after my children for a day in the week. My friend A was very non committal. Friend B has subsequently told me that friend A doesn't want to committ to a regular weekly childcare arrangement during the holiday as she may not need me to look after her children every week, as her mother or friend B may do it!!!!!!!

I forgot all about that.

Pingu, strikes me that:

a) You can't do your job AND the childcare for your own children AND all the childcare and running round for everybody's children. Fair enough if it was just occasional, or all of the arrangements were reciprocal, but you seem to be doing all the childcare here! I'd prioritise helping the friend who's willing to look after your children in a reciprocal arrangement, but the one who just can't be bothered needs to get something in place and stop expecting everyone else to sort it for her. YWNBU about the shoes either.

b) Anybody setting themselves up as a flexible-hours childminder would clean up in your village! Maybe that's what the "homebody"friend should do?

If you feel you can't say that you are tired and want to just look after your own kids, you could say that one of your children is having issues at school and needs one to one time with you, or that you are expecting a friend round. Dh working from home is another good excuse - you can say the noise of extra kids distracts him.

Tbh, though, it won't go away properly unless you speak to her honestly about you finding it a bit too much. It may well affect the friendship, if she feels entitled to use you for free childcare, but that is beyond your control. She has created this situation, not you. In the end you have a choice to either let someone keep taking advantage for fear of causing offence or do what makes you happy. Remember that she is not worrying about you when she expects you to do this. A real friend would not want to take advantage of someone's good nature.