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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To really believe algebra is a waste of time...

212 replies

Feminine · 13/12/2011 23:33

unless you are intending to go in to a math/science driven career?

Not radical I know Wink but really, its a waste of time isn't it?

I think teens would be better off concentrating on math that actually helps when they leave school...I have a teen myself and teen siblings -I hear this opinion regularly.Many of the brightest students struggle with it, surely they could do something else? something more practical perhaps?

The jobs I have heard it is used in, is quite silly.

If I am ignorant, and we would would all be much better off if we were all better at it , then I (in advance) apologize. :)

OP posts:
mummytime · 14/12/2011 08:55

OP I would suggest you get some tuition for your son, because he needs someone to explain algebra to him in terms he understands (my family all love it, even DD who whinges about Maths loves Algebra). Actually I think it is very relevant to everyday life, working out the missing number, so we spent £72 pounds, we bought 4 pizzas at £6 each, 2 beers each (4 of us) at £3, how much was the taxi and how much do we each owe. (Yes we should have got the bus, much cheaper).

Also if your son wants a good career in computing, then he needs to have a very good Maths A'level. I cannot see how you can do the rest of A'level without understanding algebra.

babybythesea · 14/12/2011 08:57

I was particularly struck by the idea that some kids might get to learn it (because they are clever enough?) and others don't.
I sort of understand - master the basics and then we might let you move on - but on the other hand, who isn't to say that a student might struggle with one aspect of maths and yet find algebra easy? And what if that student is simply a late developer - struggles in the early years and then it suddenly 'clicks' and away s/he goes. If you have denied them a great chunk of maths, you have denied them a huge number of opportunities for the rest of their lives.
Can you imagine how you'd feel at, say, 19 or 20, if you applied to do a computing job or architecture, it was something you were really keen on and could see lots of brilliant careers coming from it, and someone said 'Thanks for the application and all but it seems you stopped doing the relevant bits of maths at 14, so I'm afraid we can't take you on.' You'd be gutted that someone else made that choice for you before you really understood the implications.

The thing is, although once you are an adult and have made your choices you can say 'I've never needed such and such..' you've got the benefit of hindsight. I think it's unfair and wrong to make the same assumptions about students who have yet to make their choices about their lives - don't we want to give them as much scope as possible and not write some of them off by limiting their futures?

I think all the posts about teachers are right though - I had one teacher who was dire and I struggled (just before GCSE). Then I got a brilliant teacher who could not only make it easier but who would willingly spend lunchtimes etc holed up in the library explaining it to those of us who didn't get it the first time round - and I went on to get an A at GCSE, a B at A Level and to do bits of maths at University. If you'd have looked at what I was doing in the year before GCSE though, I'd probably have been written out of a lot of that. Kind of gives the lie to 'Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.'

valiumredhead · 14/12/2011 08:58

It is the essence of problem-solving

Agree and I am thick as fuck when it comes to all things numerical and even I know that! Grin

C4ro · 14/12/2011 09:01

AH, your later posts are making it clearer what probably happened here. You've been in UK/ Europe, then been over the US and (possibly) coming back at some time? My engineer DH did that same thing from Germany/ US at age 13 or 14 or so. He said there were massive, massive differences in the Maths systems from one side to the other. He said it was only over in US that he really "got it" as well and thinks their system is much further ahead (just his opinion though).

It's like anything, if you learn a subject in steps, on one system only, everything builds from one step to the next- it's easy and obvious for the middling-to-bright kids. Dumped in on a high step without the foundations- even good-at-Maths kids will have a tough time as they will be missing some of the foundation and practice time on lower steps.

pallymama · 14/12/2011 09:28

I loved alegbra. I've always thought of it as a tool to help simplify problems so that I can get my head round them! I was very lucky in that I had a string of fantastic maths teachers, especially at A-level, and I really enjoyed learning it. I still use a lot of it in my day to day life, for splitting recipes, for budgetting household expenses, for working out how many tiles we needed to re-do the bathroom. I also got to use trig to make sure the bath would fit in over the bit of sloped wall we have. I am actually looking forward to helping DD with her maths homework when she's older. Xmas Blush

MeltedAdventCalendarChocolates · 14/12/2011 10:12

I am doing a maths degree. You get to a stage very early on at school where you are no longer really playing with numbers but scenarios, formulas, theorems, all of these things you need to be able to describe WHAT to do if you were actually given some numbers. You neeeeeeeed algebra.

Iggly · 14/12/2011 10:16

YABU

I loved algebra - started it in primary school.

stuffthenonsense · 14/12/2011 10:26

Yabu....i LOVE algebra! And i like to talk algebra at mealtimes with my maths/science loving husband and teens....the baby has no chance.

PoppadumPreach · 14/12/2011 10:39

YABU

I use algebra very often and I'm a SAHM - it has even come in handy for baking. I used it extensively when i worked (in financial services).

It is absolutely essential to develop a rounded and articulate young person.

you are not doing yourself any favours at all by suggesting it is unnecessary - and i seriously hope you are not passing on that attitude to your son.

helpmabob · 14/12/2011 10:50

Asides from the fact that algebra probably informs so many aspects of life without you even realising it, to take it away is to take choice away from people. How many of you knew in your teens what you wanted to pursue career wise or interest wise. I am an Arts graduate but as I get older I am developing more interest in physics and maths. If I had never been taught algebra at school I would not even have the basic, rudimentary tools to engage in this subject.

School should be about teaching children how to aim for knowledge, about engendering an interest in what is out there. If you remove subjects because some people can't see the point you are teaching children that the pursuit of knowledge is pointless.

MsWeatherwax · 14/12/2011 10:57

I loved algebra but I struggled with other aspects of Maths quite a bit. I didn't take a maths-based career and am very glad I was taught algebra at school.

GrimmaTheNome · 14/12/2011 11:01

They were saying on the radio just this morning that IT needs to change to include proper programming. Some types of programming aren't very numerical (a lot of scripting/html type 'code' which isn't really proper programming Wink) but most real stuff needs a grounding algebra.

my point is not to do away with all math...just algebra
and all the maths which depends on algebra which must be a heck of a lot of it if you're talking about anything more than mere arithmetic.

Whatmeworry · 14/12/2011 11:02

I think schools go too far with Algebra for most people's needs, what they should really home in on is Statistics and comparative tools for a base education IMO

DeckTheHallsWithPopcornMice · 14/12/2011 11:16

c4ro the same thing happened with me - I moved to the US at 13 and finally "got" algebra! Flew through my GCSE when I came home.

And now I use it all the time, usually where you'd least expect it - in knitting, for example, to work out yarn quantities, tension, shaping etc :)

NotJustForClassic · 14/12/2011 11:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

complexnumber · 14/12/2011 11:47

I think mathematics is all about patterns and relationships. And it is stuff we do every day.

If you are going on a long car journey, you will probably want to estimate when you would like to arrive. You then realise (maybe without thinking about it) that there is a realtionship between the distance you need to cover, the speed you will drive at and the time it will take.

You would hope a journey using M-ways would less time than using B-roads, because you can travel faster.

One of the functions of algebra is to formalise these relationships.

Did you hear about the mathematician with constipation? He had to work it out with a pencil. Grin

Oblomov · 14/12/2011 11:51

I too love maths. Can't wait till ds1 (7) gets to all the maths good stuff: algebra, simultaneous equations, trig, pie r squared. love it, love it. sado !!

niceguy2 · 14/12/2011 12:10

Did you hear about the maths teacher who was arrested at the airport for carrying a compass, a protractor and a scientific calculator?

He was charged with carrying weapons of maths instruction!

(I'll get me coat.....)

tinkertitonk · 14/12/2011 12:14

I have just one question: how ignorant do you want people to be?

kirsty75005 · 14/12/2011 12:25

@whatmeworry. But how do you teach statistics if your students don't have any kind of knowledge of algebra? How do you present any kind of mathematics that goes beyond basic arithmetic if you can't deal with quantities whose value you don't yet know?

GrimmaTheNome · 14/12/2011 12:26

DeckTheHalls - if you understand algebra and can follow a knitting pattern, you'd find programming a doddle Grin

CherylWillBounceBack · 14/12/2011 12:42

I'm really struggling to believe your son is a terrific programmer if he can't get his head round algebra OP. An understanding of algebraic concepts is entirely fundamental to even basic programming.

Is he just writing webpages? That's not programming.

GooseyLoosey · 14/12/2011 12:47

I am a lawyer. A fair abount of the legislation I have to interpret is expressed in algebraic terms (in tax legislation) and I would not be able to advise my clients if I was unable to interpret the formulae and convert the concepts back into words. The reason they are expressed in formulae in the first place is that words would be subject to interpretation and be a lot more clunky than the elegant simplicity of a formula.

SardineQueen · 14/12/2011 12:59

Not read all

But if you take algebra off the curriculum
How will children find out if they like it or not?

I like Algebra, I like maths, I like sciences
I have a degree in Physics
Algebra is very very important

So stop being so silly Grin

I mean I had to slog away doing stuff I hated and was terrible at - English Lit springs to mind. And languages. Can we take those off the curriculum please?

SardineQueen · 14/12/2011 13:01

Also re cheryl on the programming front. How is he using variables in his progs? I don't understand how he is avoiding it.