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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To really believe algebra is a waste of time...

212 replies

Feminine · 13/12/2011 23:33

unless you are intending to go in to a math/science driven career?

Not radical I know Wink but really, its a waste of time isn't it?

I think teens would be better off concentrating on math that actually helps when they leave school...I have a teen myself and teen siblings -I hear this opinion regularly.Many of the brightest students struggle with it, surely they could do something else? something more practical perhaps?

The jobs I have heard it is used in, is quite silly.

If I am ignorant, and we would would all be much better off if we were all better at it , then I (in advance) apologize. :)

OP posts:
spiderslegs · 14/12/2011 02:32

I have A level maths - he doesn't - my instinctive arithmatic is better than his - his feeling for algorithms is way better than mine.

Original poster
Feminine · 14/12/2011 02:35

Well parietal thats a good point.

They all say (even kids that are good at it) that the teacher is not very good...

Teaching it is so different isn't it.

OP posts:
kirsty75005 · 14/12/2011 06:42

Just as an example, here's some algebra questions that might come up in real life.

I go regularly to my local cinema. They have two payment schemes : either each ticket is 7 pounds or you can pay a 10 pound subscription and then each ticket is 5 pounds for two months. How many times do I have to go to the cinema in two months for the second version to be worthwhile ? (This one just requires basic algebra; let x be the number of times I go to the cinema etc.)

I'm buying a house and need a loan. I can put 1000 pounds a month into my repayments and annual interest is 5%. Calculate the largest loan I can get (and the total interest paid) as a function of the number of years I borrow for. As a bonus, how does total interest paid behave as the number of years becomes large ? (This one is surprisingly difficult because the interest paid each year changes as you pay down the capital : the method I have uses recurrence equations but maybe there's an easier way. Anyway, I use it on first year science students at univeristy and they tend to find it difficult.)

More to the point : I don't really understand what "maths apart from algebra" means. To me, algebra is the language maths is written in, not a particular part of mathematics, it's a bit like saying "I would be good at creative writing except that I can't do English."

And finally, if we removed from the curriculum algebra there would be no way, no way on earth, that A-levels and university courses could pick up the slack for those who did want to have science based careers. Which means no more scientists or engineers in the UK economy at all because it just wouldn't be possible to teach them their trade in the time allowed. And that would be a very bad thing.

tryingtoleave · 14/12/2011 07:17

If you don't do algebra then wouldn't you just be stuck at arithmetic level? Which should be mastered by primary school or first years of hs?

I liked algebra (not a maths whizz, but competent) and find myself using it fairly often in daily life.

Sirzy · 14/12/2011 07:29

Just because it doesn't always get written x +y =z doesn't mean algebra doesn't get used on a daily basis.

Pp gave some great examples without touching on specialist uses for jobs (building dimensions, medicine calculations etc)

pigletmania · 14/12/2011 07:32

I do agree with you to some extent, but keep it for those in the top stream, for those in the bottom (like I was) concentrate on maths for everyday.

MakesXmasCakesWhenStressed · 14/12/2011 07:37

You know... I used to think that way at school. I am not a maths person at all, find it difficult and disliked it as a subject. I now work in PR and as a general dogsbody housewife. I use algebra on a regular basis. It helps me with both invoicing and changing recipes around. YABU

Sirzy · 14/12/2011 07:38

But algebra is maths for everyday.

Your in the shop you have £10 and you want to buy 3 things costing £3.20 do you have enough?

That could easily be written as 10- 3x = where x is £3.20.

You may not realise you are using it but it gets used

greenbananas · 14/12/2011 07:38

I use algebra a lot. I am a housewife. I was never particularly brilliant at maths, but I muddled through GCSE okay and I still find it useful to be able to think about things algebraically. It was calculus that really, really confused me!

My stepdad taught me to understand algebra (and trigonometry). He left school aged 14 without so much as a CSE to his name, but used this kind of maths every day in his work (he was a carpenter / master builder).

pigletmania · 14/12/2011 07:40

Yes sirzy I don't apply Algebra principles to it though, Never used Algebra tbh and struggled with it at school. Every day maths would be better, and managing your own finances for those who struggle with Maths anyway.

Bonsoir · 14/12/2011 07:43

Algebra isn't difficult, is it? I always enjoyed algebra a lot. I don't really understand the OP at all.

CaptainMartinCrieff · 14/12/2011 07:45

I'm a Physicist... I'd be lost if someone like you had chosen the curriculum. Angry

Sirzy · 14/12/2011 07:49

You may not realise you use it but I don't believe anyone doesn't use the principles to work things out daily.

pigletmania · 14/12/2011 07:52

I used to get shouted at by my maths teacher and it was hell at school. I guess thats what put me off tbh. Believe it or not, I have studied Psychology to postgrad level and did use Stats, I found it much better than at school as I enjoyed it, and it applied to what I was studying.

WillieWaggledagger · 14/12/2011 07:58

i loved algebra and use it all the time, though i don't have a science based job.

i really loved pure maths particularly - it really stretches the brain

TheRealTillyMinto · 14/12/2011 08:07

OP you wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. YABVVVVVVVU. maths is a set of tools. why miss one out?

RealLifeIsForWimps · 14/12/2011 08:11

Albebra is just working out an unknown value by reference to values that you do know- i.e. understanding the relationship between values. You use algebra in

  • Any job that involves construction of a structure (carpentry, building, demolition, architecture, engineering, plumbing)
  • Any job that requires spreadsheets (including but not limited to accountancy,banking, trading, all those other well paid city jobs Grin)
  • Any job that involves IT programming or coding
  • Any job where you need to work out margins/VAT/pricing/salary deductions etc (so if you want to work for yourself basically)

I'm actually finding it harder to find jobs that you don't need it for.

Bunbaker · 14/12/2011 08:12

I use spreadsheets a lot at work. Without knowing how to do formulas it would take much longer to do my job.

Way back when I was at school in the 1970s we didn't have computers (we didn't even have calculators) so, at the time, I couldn't see a need for algebra, but I do now.

RealLifeIsForWimps · 14/12/2011 08:23

I love excel. I get real geeky joy and satisfaction from it. Once of DH's colleagues is an excel genius, and he used to send me his best new formulas when I used to build big financial models for a living. Such a treat. Yes, I am very sad.

Bunbaker · 14/12/2011 08:25

I always get a thrill when I learn a new trick on excel. I must get out more Smile

kirsty75005 · 14/12/2011 08:31

@pigletmania. What do you mean by "algebra principles" though ? It's just a helpful way of thinking about quantities that haven't been determined yet, it's not a principle that is separate from the rest of maths.

It actually sounds to me like you're fine with algebra (statistics involves a lot of algebra, so I don't see how you can do stats if you really don't understand algebra) but at some point you probably had a poor maths teacher of the kind who puts more emphasis on the form than the content and who convinced you that algebra was something different - and much harder - than it is.

Everyday maths and managing your finances can, as soon as loans and interest rates are involved, have some pretty difficult algebra involved, so it really doesn't make much sense to say "we shouldn't be teaching algebra, we should be teaching everyday maths". Algebra is everday maths.

shesparkles · 14/12/2011 08:34

YANBU

Maths was always one of my strongest subjects until they introduced the alphabet
Maths is numbers
English is alphabet
and never the twain shall meet!

Being serious though, I think I was taught badly and if I were to be taught now I'd probably "get" it. Unfortunately the secondary school I went to had a policy of giving the top sets the weakest teachers! And no I'll never forgive them for that. I went from maths dux at primary school to scraping an O grade

OriginalChristmasPoster · 14/12/2011 08:36

OP

x is an unknown quantity, there are many, many of these in real life, you need to embrace x, not try to stamp it out Grin

XxxxxxxxX

senua · 14/12/2011 08:46

"The math they do here (US) is very different."

I am struggling with this notion. OP clearly doesn't understand Maths.Hmm
The whole point is its universality and predictability - hence it can be applied to all sorts of future situations, even ones that your DS cannot dream of. It will never go out of date nor be obsolete. Why else do you think we are still following what some Greek dude worked out millennia ago? (compare and contrast to Greek and modern-day medicine)

MoreBeta · 14/12/2011 08:48

Feminine - I get where you are coming from and just like your son I am quite numerate science type but when it came to algebra I was really lost.

I just did not understand the language of equations, it was and still is just a sea of letters, brackets and functions BUT later in life I set about learning and using algebra in my own way. I had to teach myself, but not the way a maths teacher teaches it but in a way I could understand it. Oddly, I ended up doing a PhD in statistics and use equations a lot in my professional life now. I still cannot do algebra but I can use it if that makes any sense.

I agree with you 1Catherine1 that there are loads of bits of our education we never use in our later life. Do I really need to know what a glacial end moraine is? No, not at all but in a different life I might have.

Not having a go at you, but one thing I would say about maths teaching in general, is I sometimes think that maths teachers find oit hard to see how maths really baffles people because they themselves do truely understand it. Later in life, I used to teach maths to adult business people. I think I was good at teaching it despite not being fantastic at maths myself because I knew how baffled I felt with it so could empathise with the real fear and trepidation they felt.