To wish DSs school would just tell him his punishment and get it over with.

[Solo2]

DS1 (aged 10) accidentally cracked a light fitting at school whilst kicking a football around the changing room with 3 other boys. This is against school rules and he was riven with guilt over the w/e, confessed what had happened to me and was crying on and off all w/e, was sick, developed a migraine and couldn't sleep all night.

I was v pleased that he'd had the courage to confess to me and that he has such an active guilty conscience. However, he'd also been threatened by the ring leader on pain of bullying - not to tell anyone and was v concerned about that. He has been ostracised at school by the 'cool' crowd and was - rather unwisely - trying to get 'in' with the football crowd and feel accepted (long history here).

He decided to confess all at school too and face the consequences. Three of the four boys were called to the headmaster today, as I think they've owned up too but have said that DS was the one who actually caused the accident - which is true. However, they all refused to say who was the one who was threatening the others about disclosing the incident but then turned on DS1 and accused him of this. The headmaster apparently has said he doesn't believe DS was the one who has threatened bullying but that DS1 will have the greatest punishment as it was indeed he who caused the breakage, albeit accidentally. DS1 was crying at the head interview and another of the boys has now spread the word about this, with the 'cool' crowd and DS1 is even more upset.

Although I don't condone DS1 breaking a school rule and consequently damaging a light fitting by accident, I really wish the school would tell him his punishment. DS1 has, since last Thursday now, been tearful, sleepless, now has a nasty flu-like virus, is moody and really, really worried. We think the most likely punishment will be an after school detention plus writing letters of apology and/or me paying for the breakage. But there are only 3 days of term left and two of those wouldn't be possible for the school to do a detention as there's an after school concert and then the last day - leaving only Thursday.

I really need to know, for my own arrangements, if they intend to give him a detention then or if they're going to drag things out into next term. But far more important to me is that I wish they'd just get on with it and let DS and myself know what the intended punishment is, as DS1 has now had several days getting more and more upset and worried.

DS1 is a 'follower' of stronger characters, with low self esteem himself and has been bullied in the past. None of this excuses his misbehaviour but as his mum, I'm finding it really hard to wait this out, whilst I see him suffering so much, to the point of getting physically ill and withdrawing from normal activities and all the fun stuff that's currently happening at school.

AIBU to wish the school would contact me right now and tell me what they intend to do, so that DS1 can face his punishment, rather than worrying so much? He is fantasising that they'll do all sorts of horrible things to him and I just wish he could be 'put out of his misery'.

I've been reading this thread for awhile, coming in and out of it. I was trying to put my finger on what it reminded me of and I've finally got it "Wait till your father gets home!" We don't do that now, we know discipline needs to happen there and then or it's worthless and that doesn't just mean in the home, school to.

IIWY I wouldn't even punish him. He doesn't need it. He's made himself sick over this, he knows he did wrong and he's been punished in a horrible and cruel way already. Put yourself in his head (and TBF it'd be my head too) if it was an easy punishment it'd be done there and then, it must feel to him like HT is cooking something mega up and the closer it gets to the end of term the more horrible it must feel like - what's happening on Friday? Class party? He's going to think that it's getting closer to Friday and that'll be what's taken from him, whatever end of term/ Christmas celebrations are going to be. Might not be, might be a 10 minute detention but it'll just grow in your son's head because a 10 minute detention should have been done by now. Those thoughts about what he might lose, that's his real punishment because right now anything less will be a relief.

I'm one of those adults who still suffers because of the bullying from children and teachers. My mum was up the school all the time, I honestly don't know what else she could have done other than move me sooner - I moved for Y6 and it was the best year of school but by then the damage had been done. Don't ever let anyone bully your children - yes there's a place where you have to say kids are kids but there's a difference between that and bullying - don't let any teacher brush it off. Especially when you're putting a heck of a lot of money their way! Would you go out for an expensive meal and ignore bad service? Your children are worth a whole lot more than an expensive meal, don't treat them less than it.

This sounds like the worst sort of independent school and I was privately educated so have experience of how vile some of these establishments can be.

I feel very sorry for your ds but I am equally aghast to discover you are paying for him to be made so unhappy at school. Vote with your feet and your cheque book and get him into a decent school. Pronto! Otherwise you will have a seriously disturbed child whose education will suffer drastically. A good state school would be 100% more compassionate and effective than this modern day version of Dotheboys Hall.

Thanks for the further feedback. I have no one to take with me to the meeting today solo mum, no relatives around and haven't discussed recent situation with friends). The meeting isn't supposed to be about the incident at all, which was sort of reclarified by the form teacher - ie she'd see IF she could get the head to pop in but really we are meeting about maths demotion.

To clarify, DCs have only just found out which of Yr 6 will get into the senior part of the school for next year. Internal candidates no longer have to do rigorous exams/assessment but are subject to continual assessment and in-school exams. DCs were delighted to hear that they've got in (they'd declare they love their school BTW!) and were not borderline candidates - but - both were below average in maths (hence today's meeting and a second demotion to the bottom of 4 maths sets). DS1 also did below average in English - although we're talking below average for this school which is working about 2 to 3 yrs ahead of normal.

So they're 'signed up' for the seniors and everyone in RL has been saying to me that things get easier there because there are such a lot of new children starting from state schools or other private schools. It's a completely separate site, very large, for an independent school and has a completely different headteacher. The 'power' lies in the hands of others in a hierarchical structure there - with heads of year, heads of lower school, form tutors etc etc. I'm hoping for better things there.

I do feel intimidated by the current headmaster and wish I had a partner/husband to join forces with me at times like this. I think the school view the typical 'mum' as likely to be SAHM with time on her hands, baking cakes for the school fetes etc etc. I'm a bit unusual, as I'm f/t working - running own business - and raising DCs completely on my own. I don't quite 'fit' the image of a typical parent there and I think without a husband, they believe I'm an easy walk-over. I haven't wanted to 'rock the boat', in the run up to assessments for the seniors and even now, formal acceptance from the senior school doesn't come till after Xmas. So I'm nervous of causing too much trouble.

However, I subjectively feel that this whole incident has been totally mismanaged by the school and like one of you said, this was an accident caused by 4 boys messing around, where one of them, DS1, was trying to be accepted by the cool crowd, so enjoyed the feeling of fitting in with them. DS1 wanted to confess about the accident and was threatened by the ring leader if he did. He therefore gave part of the story to a teacher, last week but by Monday had confessed all at school. It's now Wednesday and he's still waiting to hear about the consequences and family life is pretty stressful right now.

I'll go in to the school today with the weight of MN behind me and hope that I can assert myself better. As I have a flu-like virus at present, I'm not feeling at my best but will hope that I can at least fight my corner. It's possible though that the entire incident will not be discussed and I'll be told again that the head is dealing with this - end of story.

Solo- you've posted before qbout other truly ghastly things this school is doing to your children. It sounds like a place with no redeeming features at all. I suspect that you are finding it very hard to accept that, just because of it's professed academic excellence and extreme selectiveness, it it not a good school at all and is not serving your children well. It is hard sometime to accept that we hqve made a massive mistake over anything ws important as the choice of school for our children, but sometimes it has to be done. The are plenty of people on hiere who would help and support you through moving your boys, which really is the only answer to your continuing issues with where they are now. Please think of their happiness, bite the bullet and withdraw them.

What leeloo1said.
Most parents want their child to recieve the best education. Some choose state school. Some choose private. Some don't have the choice.
But I am sure that all parents do not want their DC to be pounded down by the teachers (especially the HT!!)
What is going on at that school? If that is the HTs attitude then can you imagine the sort of children that that school churns out?
Move your DS to a place where he can enjoy his education, where he can get support and where the teachers aren't so far up their backside that they are only seeing the supposed shit rather than what is actually causing the shit.

solo good luck with the meeting and I hope you get some answers. Have not much helpful to say am sounds like my school but that was back in the 80's which by the way I loved being at but headmaster was a bully and a prat. The one thing it did teach me is never ever to own up to minor rule breaking does not seem to be any 'reduction' in punishment for that unlike the courts. I guess you are staying with the school as ds love it and it is academically good. If you get no joy demand a meeting pre weekend with HM if not contact governors or is it in a group of school some religous ones are etc. I can see that until you get it in writing re their places you may not want to do anything. as the HM Form teacher what lessons they think they are teaching your son re honesty/ fairness and empathy.

good luck

I agree with seeker.

And I find it very hard to believe that your DTs actually love this school. Perhaps they are aware how invested you are in the educational conveyor belt you've got them on?

I am not anti private education at all, dearly wish I could afford it for my son but I do feel strongly that this is not the right school, private or state, for your boys. Even in this competitive academic world, robust mental health and self belief are worth more than any exams. You can be super-bright but if, like my DH, you fall apart and can't work the minute a crisis hits, because it triggers flash backs to your awful grammar school (which sounds horrifyingly similar to the school you describe), you're not going to achieve very much. With 20/20 hindsight, my inlaws bitterly regret pandering to the school and thinking that it was necessarily better than the comprehensive alternative.

I promise you, there will be better schools out there.

Do right by your boys, get them out of that place.

I think that the time has long passed tbh.

He should have been punished for breaking the lightfitting & given the greater punishment as the others should surely be punished "just" for kicking the ball where they shouldn´t have been.

As for the threat of bullying, if no one will own up to it, there is nothing to be done, & it does sound as if your son won´t be punished for that even though the others have said that that was him.

But the school are taking too long about it-but then again, he´s 10 -not really really young, & if this is the way that they usually are, then surely if he has been worrying himself sick, it´s a sign that the school & him aren´t suited?

Short letter to head setting out concerns. Request Action Plan to deal with bullying no later than say, 10th January 2012, and in writing. Son off now for the rest of this term. You give date for meeting, say 15th Jan, once you have received the written action plan. Copy to governors and say you will be sending next term's fees when the matter has been satisfactorily resolved and if it cannot be you trust the school will work with you to find an alternative school where your boys will be happier. End of.

Tell you son he is loved and you will ensure his safety and the best education for him you can. You should, however, find some support for him in order to deal with the bullies and to chose his companions more wisely because at the end of the day being bullied is NOT an excuse for bad behaviour or for damaging property because of breaking the rules and I respect the HT position in respect of that but think he could be a bit more empathetic in the way he has gone about it.

Just got back from school meeting. Saw headmaster as well as form teacher. Form teacher much better at parent liaison than head but anyway....head teacher told me that the punishment will be each boy gets a school equivalent to a demerit (3 of these leads to an after school detention) but DS1 will also have a lunchtime detention to write a letter of apology for accidentally breaking the light fitting and this will probably take place tomorrow lunchtime.

Head implied that DS1 should lighten up and 'be a man' and not get so worked up about these things. I'd told him about the last 5 days and nights of anguish for DS1 and his worries. I reiterated the conflict for DS1 between doing the right thing and confessing but being aware that this might then lead to further bullying and being ostracised.

Whilst I was attempting to discuss this, the headmaster was actually standing at the door of the room, facing away from me, looking out for the boys (DS1 included) who were due to come and see him right that moment. This was a bit off-putting, as I was trying to get to the root of the issue for DS1.

Anyway, the head also said they were all aware of the particular boy who had put pressure on the others not to tell and that they were aware that this boy was charismatic and powerful and was regularly in trouble and that this was the more serious issue. He implied this boy was a bit of a lost cause already (at 11?!?), but I suggested perhaps this boy simply needed help in channelling his influence in the right way.

Anyway, I also discussed - just with the form teacher - DCs problems with low self confidence in maths and she said the sort of things parents want to hear and handled it well.

However, my impression of the school thinking I'm overly involved was really confirmed - by reading the non-verbal body language and some of the way things were said and certainly from the headmaster, I felt that he probably believes that the fact my sons are being brought up by a single mother maybe making them too soft and sensitive really. As he's gay, I always expected him to have a broader view of what it is to be a man than a narrow, macho, unemotional 'front' but maybe this is his own reaction to earlier life issues of his own. He's good at giving excellent 'speeches' to parents and 'selling the school' but perhaps there's room for improvement in his listening skills. I kept having almost to interrupt him to get a word in edgeways at all!

I am really now waiting to see how life in the senior part of the school pans out. Some people with experience there say that it's brilliant and much better and that the pressure is off, certainly for the first year. Their children are v happy there. Others say it's incredibly pressured and hard with 3 HW subjects a night, every night that takes a good 2 to 3 hrs after school and there are Saturday morning detentions there too.

I'm reserving judgement as the other local school options have different issues and problems of their own, like any schools.

At least we now know what DS1's punishment will be and DS1 should have been finding this out today as he had gone into the head's own office as I was leaving another office. I wanted to make sure he saw me and to reassure him but it was more 'in keeping' with the school to avoid him seeing me at all.

Solo - whilst I hate the whole "man up" attitude, your DS1 does, for his own sake, need to stop worrying so much. I say this as the parent of a 9yo DS who worries way too much, about everything, and in a less caring school would be sunk without trace - as it is, his teachers understand him and tease him very gently about being a worry-wart, and are generally supporting us in our efforts to get him to chill a bit.

DS found this book useful - maybe DS1 might like it?

I'm glad you had the meeting although I am absolutely at your description of it.

I am also that your reactions weren't along the lines of "excuse me, I am speaking to you" when the HT had his back to you and that you left the school leaving your son behind.

I would have said that at this point I would have considered a punishment to be inappropriate and considered the matter closed. The school is behaving appallingly.

It's up to you of course, he's your son, but from what I have read on here, my children would not be at that school. They just wouldn't. Obviously there's more to the school that you have covered in this thread, but really.

He wouldn't be treated like that in year 6 of a state school.

He wouldn't be treated like that in year six of a good state school, nor of a good private school, folkgirl. The school being independent is irrelevant - some school are badly run, some aren't, some of them will be state, some private.

There is no way the head of the juniors or the principal of DS's school would behave like that. No way.

OP - you have written pages of angst here - is it possible that you transfer some of your angst to your boys. Next time, nice no nonsense approach would help them I think. Into school, quick appointment, get it sorted and support the school to help your son accept that being victimised is not an excuse for breaking the rules.

Like FolkGirl I'm also surprised you didn't make it clear to the HT that you were talking to him and could he please pay the matter in hand some attention. It's not being rude, it's being assertive. I get the feeling you're not happy about a lot of things to do with the ethos of the school but you're not prepared to challenge it, yet do you do feel like challenging it. The HT's body language says it all - your views and whatever you have to say is unimportant to him. He patronised you. I do feel sorry for you though. You're desparately trying to make this school work and perhaps in Yr 7 it will be better - I think I'd also hold out until then to see if it's better - but I'd also give it a time limit and if there were any more incidents like this I'd be making plans to get your boys moved sharpish. In fact, I think I'd probably have made the decision for the beginning of Yr 7. I do wish you luck though.

marriedandwreathedinholly - what rules did the boy break? Kicking the football around inside? That was nothing to do with him being victimised - that came after.

Looking back at the OP-what was making your son so worried-breaking something or being threatened if he told?

Thanks for feedback. Most of you seem to be saying I am NBU and in fact should take my DCs out of the school but a few are implying that the problem may lie with me and overreaction to DS1's distress. I've wondered that myself, although it's really hard not to have an anxious response to a v distressed child and not to feel worried and concerned about him.

Obviously my response in front of him is to reassure and be matter of fact about the whole thing but he probably detects my concern.

I suppose the way I'm 'hooked' into the school's take on things is because I'm not sure if indeed they're right and I'm not making my sons tough enough? Could it be that I'm too soft and emotionally over involved? Do they need a more matter of fact perspective? Would a father or someone of a different personality to me, do it differently? I suppose that's why I posted on MN to get a broader perspective on things but most of you seem to think I'm not being protective enough....

It's very useful to reflect on all this. I'll see how DS1 is tonight (late school concert tonight too, which is the last thing he needs). Maybe it'll all have blown over for him today once he knows his punishment?

Diddl, DS1's primary concern at the w/e was feeling ashamed that he'd not told the teacher the full truth about what had happened. He likes and respects the teacher involved in looking after the changing room area and felt bad that he'd only told him a part truth.

Secondly, he was afraid of the consequences of telling the truth - both from the school and also from me at home.

However, part of the first two concerns were laid to rest - ie he confessed and apologised to the teacher on Monday, who seemed to imply on that day that it was fine and all over the done with.

He confessed to me on Saturday and was reassured that I was proud he'd had the courage to be honest, proud that he had an active conscience, didn't condone his silliness but accepted it had been an accident not an intended breakage. He'd also been worried that I'd have to pay for the damage and I reassured him that if that was the case, this was fine (he's aware of my current money worries but doesn't understand the perspective on this - ie worry re. paying school fees, not worry re. paying a few pounds for damages).

His worry over the possible punishment emerged and grew when he saw the headmaster yesterday and was told he'd get a severe punishment compared to the others involved but wasn't yet to know what that was - hence another broken night's sleep.

Today, he was also really worried about what other children would have heard and what they'd think about him, as most of his friends now are in the goody-goody set. He was also worried that the boy who'd threatened consequences if DS1 confessed would now bully him and get others to do the same.

So there were lots of different worries but the first one, which made me proud, was how bad he felt not to have been completely honest with the nice teacher last week.

TBH, I don't think that an accidental football kick breaking something is outside the ordinary for a child/ a boy of this age, especially as the bully boy had specifically told him to 'do a high kick now'. DS1 is hopeless at football and it doesn't surprise me that he misjudged the kick. According to the headmaster, the boys had told him they'd gone into the changing rooms because they were cold at breaktime. This is breaking the rules, as is using a ball in the changing rooms. Those two things are wrong. DS1 knows this and this is the what merits his punishment from what the head told me.

Alright a LONG POST,

no, you are not too soft and emotionally involved. But, you are expecting the school to be too soft and emotionally involved. They cannot run a school in this way with provisos and special rules for one person and not another.

I feel real sympathy because one of my sons (yr7) had a similar incident this term, where he committed an offence, was punished, hauled over coals and threatened with exclusion, and we as parents felt the incident had been arisen out of a "bullying" situation, where he had been felt threatened, cornered in the toilets, low self esteem etc. It was just before halfterm, he was exhausted, we waited all through half term wondering what the punishment would be.

As you say, it is soo difficult to stay calm, I was terribly upset, and so was ds1, and I actually sent my husband in for the Big Meeting, because I couldn't trust myself not to get completely worked up. In the event my husband insisted the school saw things from my son's point of view, BUT and BIG BUT, he agreed with me that the school's policy on zero tolerance of bad behaviour (whatever the reasons for it) were to be upheld. My son got a one day social exclusion when we felt he was not really to blame. YET we knew, in the end, he had to learn that was not the way to behave in certain situations when he felt threatened....

Like you, we had the whole thing blown completely out of proportion emotionally, endless discussions about how he came to pee on another boy's foot [!!!! yes we laugh about it now . Ds went into school crying but we just said, we love you, we support you, we know why you did it, and how it happened, BUT you have to take the consequences.

And it was fine, I think it was a bit of turning point and he just spent the day with teacher and knew that the slate was clean after that. He said it was fine, just boring, and he did not feel humiliated and put down, just accepted the consequences. He knew we were on his side, but that Rules were Rules. It think it made him a bit stronger emotionally, and less of a bully target. Ifyswim. Rest of term has gone very very smoothly, teachers are on his side too.

My son has a real tendency to tug our heartstrings and say it wasn't my fault, I didn't mean it, I'm so stupid, why did I do it, and we have learnt the hard way to say. You are great, you are fantastic, but this is not acceptable. I think quite often it is a form of attention seeking to keep failing. We try to pay more attention to now when he is succeeding and less when he is failing ifysim. And it's noto the end of the world to have a detention. Lots of people fail, and then pick themselves up and start again. It's in the Bible too...as we keep reminding ds1 (who is in faith school) He was intrigued to notice that most of the old Testament heroes get everything wrong.

However, I would add, that IF my child had been given an EXCLUSION for the incident, which was threatened in a rather unpleasant manner, my husband and I would not have hesitated to pull him out of the school on the ground that they were being completely unreasonable not to say pompous twits, had no bullying policies at all, and that the school was clearly completely unsuited to our child. Luckily I think they saw things from our point of view, which is why he only got a social suspension.....

So chin up, it is not the end of the world, and I think the best thing is to lighten up generally because that is how kids learn to lighten up.

Dh said one of the most important things in the interview was not to be a bleeding heart, not raise his voice, not rant and rave, and keep ds from crying. And say little. And that all went well as a result, and they respected our point of view, judiciously given, more.

What a great post, Swanrevelry! It sounds like you know where I'm coming from and have given good advice from your own similar experience. I will just have to learn better to be like the OH of a couple who handles things more calmly and assertively.

I do think there is a gender issue here as this school was an all boys one not so long ago and I find it flooded with gender-based assumptions and presumptions including how the girls or boys are treated - differently - and how the parents are also perceived. The expectation is that the 'small stuff' can be dealt with by the mums and the bigger stuff by the dads and if a dad attends a parent evening, for example, they tend to take him much more seriously than a mum.

Dads here (generalising hugely) tend to be the ones who've maintained their high powered careers (think professor level/ top consultants) whilst the mums have ditched a similar career path and started to bake cakes at home instead or join the PTA. I don't fit the mould at all and am effectively trying to be both of two kinds of parent.

I wish I had the guts to ask how they might perceive me differently if I were saying the same things but were male! This probably belongs to a different section of MN though.

Thanks again for your helpful post.

I do think there is a gender issue here as this school was an all boys one not so long ago and I find it flooded with gender-based assumptions and presumptions including how the girls or boys are treated - differently - and how the parents are also perceived. The expectation is that the 'small stuff' can be dealt with by the mums and the bigger stuff by the dads and if a dad attends a parent evening, for example, they tend to take him much more seriously than a mum.

and you want your sons inculcated with these attitudes, why, exactly?

I honestly wonder what you want from this school, Solo. Because it sounds hideous and worse, from what you say, is a struggle to afford.

I quite agree about children learning to get things into perspective and not being encouraged to worry themselves distracted over everyday ups and downs but this should occur in a compassionate environment.

Academic hot-housing does not suit all children and is never an adequate justification for a making your chid endure a miserable time at the wrong school. It's wrong if you can easily afford the fees but quite bonkers if you are struggling.

Wth ref to gender issue, and feeling that without an OH the school won't listen..I think my Dh has these skills not because he is a man but because he happens to do deals, and negotiations and talk to tricky customers. His minus is that he hates people bossing him around, and hates school teachers because it brings back terrible memories of being bossed around at school... So I can't say he is always an asset...and basically anti-school in general. Several times I have to remind him of things from school's point of view..

On a lot of occasions I think my point of view, whether you want to think of it as female, sensitivemothery or just me, is the more appropriate one. I empathize with teacher. I want the best for my child. I try to listen. I want a complex answer not a straight one. I want to discuss things from several angles. There is a value in that, as long as I don't go off the rails

So don't belittle yourself on that account as a very effective communicator. I think sometimes if we've been a bit scared at school ourselves, the tendency is to be an awkward mixture of wanting to be "good" and get teachers to like us/value us, and yet there is a lot of pentup defensiveness in us, which comes out as rocking the boat, questioning things on your child's behalf. As Dh says to me quite often it is NOT ABOUT YOU, it's about DS1/DS2/DD

The difficulty is to see clearly which things are about your own feelings, and which are about your child's situation.