to divorce my husband over £3

[mrspepperspot]

This is the final straw. Background:

DH earns decent wage - way above national average. I'm on unpaid maternity leave. We agreed DH would support us until I go back to work - I plan to go back in the next 12 months. He pays mortgage and most bills. He has always had a lot of debt - overdraft, loans and credit card bills. I didn't realise until after I married him the impact all this accrued debt would have on our relationship.

I have always paid half the bills until recently when I took unpaid maternity leave with second dc. So when dd was born I went back to 4 days a week when she was 4 months old and continued to pay half of the mortgage, nursery bills (even though I was earning less due to going part-time and he was working fulltime still).

In order for him to support us while I'm not earning I paid off a chunk of his debts with my saving. My theory was that with no overdraft and one of his credit card bills gone he would easily be able to pay the mortgage and bills. I have been using child benefit (we don't get any other benefits like child tax credit) to help pay for food and clothes for the dc.

DH recently admitted that despite me paying off his overdraft he is now over £1000 overdrawn and is struggling financially. I went through his bank account and together we worked out how to reduce our outgoings. Eg he was paying over £100 a month to 'buy' extra annual leave at work which I made him cancel - he'll have to get buy on the 25 days he currently gets like everyone else.

Anyway final straw came today. Every week my parents give dd £3 a week pocket money. We don't give her any pocket money so I really appreciate my parents doing this. I put the pocket money on the kitchen shelf last night with a reminder to myself to make dd put it in her money box.

This morning the money has gone. DH has taken it. This is not the first time. Last week he 'borrowed' money from her money box to buy a chinese and didn't give it back despite me nagging him. His mum sent the dc's a cheque for £20 for christmas which he paid into his bank account. I suggested he buy the dcs a christmas present with the money but I know the dcs will never see it, DH will keep it.

I can't go on like this. In other ways DH is a good man - works hard, is a good husband and father but the way he manages money is appalling. I can't respect a man that happily takes his daughters pocket money without a second thought. I am now thinking about going back to work fulltime and divorcing him.

I agree with dreamingbohemian. These are not family debts these are her DH being irresponsible.

The difference between family debts and what her DH is doing is that with family debts you are working as a team towards a common goal of clearing the debt. The OP's DH is not prepared to do his fair share to reduce the family debts even though he is the primary cause of them. Why should the OP use savings to clear debts only to find that he runs them up again. He is not trying to improve the situation but making it worse and that is extremely selfish. To use an analogy its a bit like buying the weeks food for the family only to find one person has eaten it all by Tuesday and then everyone else has to manage with beans on toast for the rest of the week, that is not sharing.

Oh, and technically, taking his DD pocket money is theft if he has no intention of paying it back. What lesson is his DD learning, save your money carefully so Daddy can take it when he can't manage his own finances?

The pocket money solution must add such messed up dynamics to the relationship though.

I really think the only real solution is therapy/counseling.

If he was an alcoholic would you tell her to dole out 2 pints every day? No, you'd tell him to get his butt to AA.

I understand where you are coming from.

My DH is also rubbish with money, and has at times "borrowed" money from our DCs and it's taken a lot of nagging from me to get him to pay it back. Basically, if DH and I have any money, he will spend it. We got straight after sorting out a payment plan for a large amount of debt he ran up, and then a few months ago I opened a credit card bill of his to find he'd run up over 1k of more debt. So we paid that off and now he has been fined for a motoring offence, so that is several hundred more we have to pay out.

I had to lay it on the line to my DH that he is not the only person in our household and that the other 4 of us have needs too. He is slowly learning but if he had carried on at that rate then it could have damaged our relationship beyond repair. I think you need to lay it on the line to your DH too, he is acting in a very selfish and entitled way.

Debt is expensive to service, so even a 'good' wage can be eaten up by it.

If he is open about his finances - and it sounds like he is if you've gone through his accounts together - then I do think you need to help him to work out a budget. If he's never been good with money and is used to having debt, then he will surely need help to change. If he is reluctant to stick to this then you can say how serious you are and how its affecting your view of him. :(

dreamingbohemian it is a stupidly depressing thing to think and obviously I'm only going by the people I know, that's just how it seems to me.

I don't like the whole pocket money thing either within a relationship but I'm not sure what the alternatives are.

It must be awful to have reached this breaking point and I am so so sorry. My gut reaction would be, though, do not jump ship just yet. Yes, he is a git about money but good in many other ways. How about some sort of counselling? First, Relate or some such so that he realises how much his ridiculous behaviour is hurting those he loves and making you lose respect for him. Then there must be some sort of thing like AA but for people who haplessly run up debt all the time?? You loved this man enough to marry him and have children - surely it's worth just one more go?

Anniemac, I think unless you're in a relationship with someone who spends and spends, it's hard to see it as a reason for splitting. I saw previously in the thread that you've said you think it's ok to carry someone financially, but if you're carrying someone who has a different financial attitude to you it is very difficult and is problematic. It's no fun having your card rejected at the supermarket because your partner has been and spent the last £50 you had on clothes for himself, or when you check your joint account statement and see they've taken £500 out that month in small amounts of cash, with nothing to show for it, leaving you overdrawn, or when you constantly have nothing to spend on yourself, month after month, because your partner insists on buying things for him/herself all the time and you know there is no money there as it is all accounted for.

It's very upsetting and is often accompanied by lying and deceit from the heavy spending partner.

So although the thread title sounds a bit flighty and something that isn't worth breaking a relationship over, I totally can see why and how the OP is at breaking point in her relationship. It sounds as though she is being sensible with money in general (home cooking for example) and her DH is showing her a lack of respect and care by spending in the manner in which he does. IMO ructions caused by this in a relationship are over a lot more than just the physical money in one's hand, if that makes sense.

anniemac what is your problem with me? I make no apologies for having my own career and my own income. Are you financially independent at all? You seem obsessed with the 'household pot' concept. I've said several times that I've paid half of all household bills including the mortage. The debt DH has is not 'family debt' because I am heavily contributing to the household finances. This is debt run up by him years ago. Not quite sure what you dont understand about that.

As for the chinese, when the takeaway came I looked in my purse saw I only had £10 asked DH if he had any money on him he disappeared and returned with some money which we later realised was from dd's money box.

so what would have happened if he hadnt taken the money - how would you have paid the delivery man?

olde more to the point why did dh order a takeaway in the full knowledge he couldnt pay for it! The answer is he assumed I would pay for it. Very depressing having to bale out a full grown man all the time.

oh and this chinese takeaway take cheques. So dh could have written a cheque, but easier for him to let me pay the bulk of it and use dd's pocket money to pay the rest. Makes me sad and angry even writing that, but its true.

Mrspepperpot, that is also the sort of thing my DH does; I think they just do it without thinking, like you say hoping that we will pay.

so what will you do OP?

you can either take steps to remedy the situation or throw your hands up and give up

OP - I know you have said that you are not taking on responsibility for his debts. You do know though that that isn't necessarily the legal position though? Lots of debts that he ran up, you can be legally responsible for. You are married and are treated legally as an entity - not individuals.

Debt counselling seems the obvious answer - you can find out on your own ie pretend it is joint debt or just yours and see what advice you get.
As you are married you could be held legally responsible for clearing his debts. Worse case scenario the house might need to be sold to repay debts.
Find an application for a credit card/loan/mortgage and use it to work out all the household outgoings - a really basic list of absolute minimum then a list that allows some little treats/holidays if you can afford it.
Armed with that demand from him the full extent of his debt what is his plan to repay, can he consolidate any debts, what is the timeframe and monthly cost to get rid of this debt.
Tell him that's how it's going to be and spell out the stark truth. Tell him what the debt counsellor said and then propose going together and setting a household budget that ensures the debt is being paid off.
If he ignores then he is being head-in-the-sand, immature and downright dangerous to your family's situation. And if he does kick up and keep ordering takeaways leave him to sort red-faced, start really separating your finances, start saving and get shot of him.

His debts are credit cards only in his name, loans only in his name and his overdraft again in his name. None of his debts are in my name so I am not legally responsible for repaying them.

I think counselling is a good idea.

MrsP If you know that for a fact then thats fantastic :)

What do you think your chances are of getting him in front of a financial professional?

Glad to hear you're thinking counseling could be helpful. Let's hope your DH agrees with you and is prepared to give it a go

OP I'd double check with a solicitor about that. I'm not entirely sure debts incurred while married aren't shared even if only in one person's name.

I thought debts incurred when you are married, even if only in 1 perons name, are still the responsibility of both. Could be wrong - but you really need to check this.

I too am pretty sure that only the person whose name the debts is in is liable for the debt. My sister and her ex husband had a 10k loan and as it was in my sister's name, he refused to pay a penny towards it and her solicitor said there was no way of enforcing his payment as it was in her name. This was a few years ago though, and I'm not sure if there have been any relevant changes in law since.

OP it is easy to tut at your DH's irresponsible financial handle, but you are his partner! Why are you so set on judging him and keeping everything so separate? It doesn't sound like you are a team at all. Marriage is about jointly working on things, and your emphasis on 'his money, my money' just doesn't work in a marriage. I have supported DH in the past, he has supported me, neither of us keep count. As long as you have separate finances, he won't feel it's up to you how he decides to spend (as he sees it) and manage his money. Start thinking 'we' and 'us' and you have a fighting chance of working your marriage out - but go on judging, blaming and enabling, and yes your marriage is over.