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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be annoyed that women who give birth naturally without pain relief are always told they "did really well"?

169 replies

Fishandjam · 07/12/2011 13:30

In brief, this is my gripe. I was induced as an emergency at 38 weeks due to sudden, severe pre-eclamptic liver failure. As you might expect, a fully interventionist birth followed - straight to large doses of drip syntocinon (no messing about with pessaries ? time was of the essence), not allowed to get up from the bed (due to monitoring), unbearable contractions, epidural, episiotomy, forceps. My baby, however, was fine, as was I (eventually).

There was nothing whatever I could have done about the way the birth went. I was exhausted from the liver failure (anyone who has had that will know just how depleted of energy you get). I couldn?t have an active labour due to the need for monitoring, and lying flat on your back makes for very painful contractions ? and the medical staff were only too happy for me to have an epidural, as they weren?t at all sure I?d have the strength to actually birth the baby without a C-section. Forceps were always going to be necessary, due to lying on my back and therefore effectively having to push the baby uphill. But I ? we ? coped, and all was well in the end.

So why do women who are lucky enough to have a normal, active labour, without pain relief other than G&A, and no interventions, get told that they ?did really well?, when people like me are not? I heard so much of it on the post-natal ward, from the midwives themselves as well as family/friends of other newly delivered mothers. Given my circumstances, didn?t I do well too? And why not for emergency C-sections also, where the woman has to go through the trauma of unexpected major surgery?

It just seems to reinforce the idea that childbirth is a competitive display of physical prowess, and that those of us who need medical help to give birth safely have somehow failed. When to me, it seems to be the luck of the draw.

OP posts:
Impatientwino · 08/12/2011 09:07

YANBU

As far as I understand it, giving birth is an ordeal whichever way it happens and I applaud all women who have been through it, equally.

Personally I'm hoping when my turn comes in the summer they will have made a scientific breakthrough and discovered that red wine is actually the best undiscovered form of pain relief, infact it takes away all the pain completely, avoids tears and causes no harm to baby!

knockneedandknackered · 08/12/2011 09:36

sorry you went through that dont be bothered about other people's births.concentrate on your own experience and not on all the negatives what other people give out. your not going to get a gold medal at the end of it and thats coming from someone who had a difficult birth.

shagmundfreud · 08/12/2011 09:43

You went through a lot for your baby OP, and that's incredible.

But I'm afraid I was proud of myself for managing three days of vomiting and horrible contractions without an epidural, so boosting my chances of having a normal delivery. And I appreciated being told 'well done' by my midwife.

Not all straightforward births come at the end of a straightforward labour.

Some women go through hell to avoid an epidural or pethidine, because they don't want to risk instruments being used on their babies, or their babies being exposed to opioids. So well done those women.

shagmundfreud · 08/12/2011 09:47

"Think the NCT has a lot to answer for in terms of false expectations and guilt over people feeling they've 'failed'"

Nowt to do with NCT. That was just the members of your class - delighted that they'd had straightforward births.

And wtf shouldn't they be? I would have been thrilled if I had ever had a short, completely uncomplicated labour!

Really - some people are so meh. Hmm

SenseofEntitlement · 08/12/2011 10:30

I went to the "preparing for baby" class when pregnant with DD2 (DD1 came four weeks early, so I missed going to them with her)

This was the NHS one, not NCT.

Zero info about c sections, even though I asked (was told that I would have to ask my midwife, and probably wouldn't even need one - I did) I was the only person there intending to breastfeed and a big deal was made about how most people don't manage it (fine to say that some people don't manage it or even want it, but can we have a bit more support to try?)

The tour of the hospital was mostly of the lovely birthing pool, the low lit midwife led bits and so on. When I said that I was very high risk and was going to need a section, there was a quick glance into the theatre. Surely some of the low risk women might have needed it too?

I was full of coedine anyway for the last bits of the pregnancy, yet a day after the section I was only given paracetomol, despite still being in as much pain from the SPD as I was before the birth ("oh, you don't still have SPD, you have had the baby" - tell that to my pelvis now, two years later)

I'm now seriously mentally ill, which I had a tendency to anyway, but it is likely to have kicked off by the trauma of DD1s birth. I'm not talking about the section (although that wasn't exactly fun) I'm talking about the fact that I knew something was wrong, I could feel the baby coming out, I was in the worst pain imaginable, I was 100% sure I was going to die, and I had a stupid midwife trilling on about how I wasn't really in labour and would know when I was, I would be proud of doing it with just gas and air and I really should try not to have the baby now as she wasn't due yet.

The consultant actually apologised afterwards.

I spent the first year of DD1s life hallucinating and in and out of mental hospital, and it is unlikely my mental health will ever recover. Who knows if it would have happened anyway, but it seems likely that that experience can't have helped.

SenseofEntitlement · 08/12/2011 10:41

Should add I was only high risk for DD2 because of the neglect from the midwives with DD1. They directly caused me to have a rare (0.05% of sections) type of section, because they took so long to spot that things really really were not right.

Also, the midwives with DD2 didn't believe me that this had happened, and were still encouraging me to go for a VBAC because it would apparently be so much better and I would feel so proud of myself. If it wasn't for the lovely people on the VBAC bit of MN telling me the risks, I would have had a very high risk of serious rupture.

Should add, that the planned section with DD2, once I persuaded them that a 10% chance of serious (as in, life threatening) rupture and SPD that meant I couldn't turn over in bed meant I needed a section, was lovely. Long recovery and painful scar, but I actually remember DD2s birth and spent her first 24 hours cooing over her rather than resenting her.

I did one of those birth afterthoughts sessions after DD1 and the midwife basically told me there was no way she could have known I was in labour (er, pain and contractions on the monitor?), then whispered that my "bits" didn't look like I was in labour (what kind of midwife is embarrassed about genitals?), then said she couldn't tell me anything about the section as it is not the kind of thing she knows about. Well, if a birth afterthoughts service can't tell me about the BIRTH of my baby, however that was, then what is the point?

ShowOfHands · 08/12/2011 11:08

Most people mean it politely and it's just Something To Say.

A very small minority genuinely mean it as a comparison. I have been told I took the easy route. I had an emcs you see so got to lie down and do no work. Other women try harder than I did. Ignore the 2 day labour, 8hr 2nd stage, episiotomy and major surgery. It was the easy route. I have been told. I did it again in September. Lucky me.

surrofab · 08/12/2011 11:31

I get told well done all the time as my last birth was an unexpected home birth, with no pain relief and no medical attention. My husband delivered the baby!
I take it as that particular woman reflecting on her own birth. I do not feel i did particularly well as i screamed the house down and didn't make it inot hospital!
Every birth is a "well done" moment i would say it to any woman no matter how she had her baby, be that natural or with a lot of medical help/drugs.

SenseofEntitlement · 08/12/2011 11:33

Ooh, and the birth afterthought woman tried to tell me I did well by going 14 hours before the section. 14 hours of crying and begging for some help that didn't come doesn't feel like doing well to me. It feels like something that happened to me without my consent or input.

LePruneDeMaTante · 08/12/2011 12:45

The trouble with the NCT is that it has become mainstream, but it isn't a mainstream organisation in terms of ethos. The mainstream - the people and the services - is just different and the NCT classes can only rarely (it seems) support that.

shagmundfreud · 08/12/2011 13:08

There is NO difference between the NCT and the Royal College of Midwives when it comes to their stance on interventions, pain relief or epidurals.

Or is the RCM also not 'mainstream' because they also flag up concerns about rising intervention rates?

There are some radical NCT teachers just as there are radical midwives. (actually there is an organisation called Radical Midwives in the UK which has many, many members). But the 'ethos' of both organisations is supportive of all mothers no matter what kind of birth they want or get.

Fishandjam · 08/12/2011 13:42

Sense, sounds like you had a megacraptastic time - I'm so sorry for what you went through. That kind of story makes my blood boil.

shagmundfreud, I get what you mean about the NCT's overall ethos. I guess there will be variations in the ethos of each individual class tutor though. Don't get me wrong; I really enjoyed the NCT classes, found all the graphic biological stuf really interesting, and pulled a bit of a Hmm face when the tutor started going on about the evils of intervention (thinking "hell, I was an emergency C-section myself, and wouldn't be here if I wasn't, so it's not the big disaster you're making it out to be".) I also made some great mates with whom I'm still in contact. (And when I saw the class tutor after my labour, I jokingly said to her "You remember telling us that syntocinon-induced contractions were " a little more uncomfortable" than natural ones? You bloody lied!" To which she replied "Of course I did, I didn't want to terrify you all!")

Interesting stat: in Italy they don't "do" epidurals or other significant pain relief in labour. Guess what their C-section rate is? Almost 40%, the highest in Europe, compared with around 25% in the UK. I don't know whether the two are linked, but it's an interesting line of questioning....

OP posts:
shagmundfreud · 08/12/2011 13:56

Fishandjam - I'm suspect your Nct teacher didn't use value laden language to describe c/s. Any sensible adult knows that c/s is often a life saving operation. And it's hard to find a midwife who doesn't believe that the emergency c/s rate in the UK is way too high and that some are definitely avoidable.

Can you link me to the stats on epidural use in Italy? Most European countries have higher epidural rates than the uk. And lower c/s rates.

NinkyNonker · 08/12/2011 14:00

Thank God for the NCT in many cases, it is a GOOD thing to have education and information that empowers women to make the right choices for them, know what they want and what is possible. It sounds like some teachers add too much 'personal commentary' to their classes though, which may be where the system is falling down.

After a classic cascade of intervention (no, I didn't have NCT classes) I had a fairly traumatic (for me) labour and am currently trying to decide what to do for DC2 in the Spring...eeek.

LePruneDeMaTante · 08/12/2011 14:05

Radical is not mainstream!
Personally I am 100% FOR improving birth education and I'd love if more women could have relatively undisturbed births if at all possible (resources basically only rarely permit that), but look how many people are coming out of NCT classes with the feeling that they have 'failed' - what the hell is going wrong that it has to feel like an exam? Something is being lost in communication.

AnaisB · 08/12/2011 14:08

I agree OP. I didn't have pain meds cos my labour was easy (sorry) - I feel that I am particularly undeserving of "well dones!"

I have also been told "well done" because DD put on lots of weight - the implication being that if your child hasn't put on weight they have done badly.

LePruneDeMaTante · 08/12/2011 14:25

I know someone who had therapy because of the weight gain thing: she was EBF and had a dinky baby who gained weight slowly. He was 100% fine and great.

Brambule · 08/12/2011 17:03

YANBU. I had the induction drip/constant monitoring/forceps and then an emergency c-section thrown in at the end. Luckily I had amazing midwives who were v encouraging and were constantly telling me how well I was doing Grin Sorry to hear you didn't get the same support in hospital. You DID do bloody well with all that going on so just keep reminding yourself of that.

LeQueen · 08/12/2011 17:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SlinkingOutsideInSocks · 08/12/2011 19:36

The 'didn't you do well' after a big baby thing thing always has me rolling my eyes a bit! And people freaking out because their baby is measuring big and how on earth are they going to deliver it; it's going to be soooo much more painful, etc, etc....

The extra weight on big babies is chub. Soft and squishy. Makes not a jot of difference squeezing that out of your fanjo. it's the head and shoulders which are the problem, not the soft, extra layers of chub. It's why you need to be dilated 10cm to give birth, in order to fit the head through - a full-term baby's head will be around this, regardless of how squishy their tummy and thighs are Grin

DD, the one I gave birth to without so much as a paracetemol (again, not through my own choice!) was 9lb 4oz so I don't say this lightly!

YuleingFanjo · 08/12/2011 20:34

"I don't think anybody would think you failed given your circumstances."

this does make wonder... under what circumstances would someone think a mum had failed at giving birth?

I prefer to say 'wow, lucky you' when people talk of natural pain free birth. After all... it is just luck.

YuleingFanjo · 08/12/2011 20:35

sorry ... Pain relief free... Blush

marriedandwreathedinholly · 08/12/2011 20:49

Our DC are 17 and 13. Giving birth and breastfeeding is a very small part of motherhood. The best mothers are not necessarily those who had the perfect birth and happily breastfed their babies for at least six months.

Being a mother is about love and that is the most important gift of all. It is also about support, encouragement, a quiet place for homework, good food, nurturing, making Christmas and birthdays happy, security, screaming from the touchline for the first try, applauding the first goal, piano practice, Biff and Chip, first nativity, first concert, GCSE's and providing their favourite dinners and lifts to school, forging good relationships with schools, waiting for the secondary transfer results, knowing they have had their first kiss, helping them to deal with bullies, I could go on and on and on. But what it isn't about are those first few hours giving birth and those early days of breast feeding.

Mothers remember the birth and the feeding - thankfully children remember the love and the support.

HappySeven · 08/12/2011 21:25

Well said, married. I've had a crash section and a "natural" delivery with ventouse and G+A. I assume the "well dones" are code for "weren't you lucky?"

Shelly32 · 09/12/2011 00:28

Would you have a tooth out without pain relief? You would have in Medieval times!! Would you now? Not unless you were a sadist. Medicine progresses..taking on pain when you don't have to doesn't make you a hero and it certainly doesn't make you a better mother. In fact studies show that long births can be traumatic for babies.. It's what happens after the birth that shows who you are. We do what's best for our babies. For me, it was to have a birth where both were safe...a quick exit!! If some choose a natural birth then that's their choice but no one should make another person feel bad for having to have intervention. Baby comes first!!

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