To expect schools to have big and ugly old skool teachers who can give a b****king

[JustArgh]

Parents evening last week, call home today DS (year 9) in trouble yet again, another meeting at school to "resolve" things.

Am I being unreasonable to expect teachers to sort this out at school themselves by yelling and generally terrifying pupils into submission - or is this frowned upon nowadays?

What's happened to the ex-Army psycho barrelling across the playground to break things up and sort things out with the school halfwits like my DS.

Teachers - why do you have to be so "nice" ?!

Raise your voice and they are on the phone quick smart to 'childline'!

They know their 'rights'

Fwiw I agree with you

We're not allowed to do the psycho act any more.

Also, if your DS is in trouble "yet again", then my experience would tell me that what happens at home cannot be separated f rom school life. That's where he's spent most of his life, and gained his values.

what stranded said

YABU

Ex Army psycos might get rid of the symptoms but they will not solve the problems. I'd rather halfwits learned not to be halfwits, instead of learning how not to get caught.

I don't think that's allowed anymore. I kind of see what you mean, DS used to misbehave early on at primary school but then improved when he had a stricter teacher... but I don't know how much support you'll get - your OP was worded a bit badly tbh.

Listen, I am more than happy to take advice on my parenting.

Echt - I would have agreed with you before, but what can I say? He comes from a good home ! his misbehaviour is limited to within school. Everyone else outside school says how nice he is.

I just don't feel teachers necessarily have the time to be softly spoken and reasonable consistently throughout the day. Can't things be expressed as instructions not requests?

A state of fear is not one which is conducive to learning new things.

I want to know what happened to all those lovely, fit ex-Army types we were promised would be flooding into schools to teach discipline and bring a little assertive authority back into the schoolroom.
Still waiting.
It's always bloody jam tomorrow.

You refer to your DS as a halfwit and want someone else (e.g. Not you) to tackle his poor behaviour but shouting at him? In my experience, shouty teachers are not respected by staff or students. Shouting and screaming makes a teacher look silly and out of control. It also provokes the student to shout and scream rather than calm down. If teachers are contacting you yet again to discuss your DS's poor behaviour then maybe the message you're missing is that YOU need to be taking responsibility?

Do you shout and scream at your DS at home, OP? Do you find it effective?

MixedClassBaby - what can I do to take responsibility for his behaviour at school? Attend school lessons - not facetious though may well read that way - genuinely would like to know what teachers think parents can do to get kids to behave when they are not "there".

Noblegiraffe - yes, no not always. But I do set clear boundaries and explain what is acceptable and expected and they are met.

Secondary schools pander to kids so much!

Don't like PE? Let's take you out for some of those lessons

Can't control your anger in lessons? Lets give you a 'time out' card so when you feel the anger rising, you can just walk out to cool down elsewhere

Don't like coming in to school every day? Let's give you a reduced timetable then

Our headmaster was an ex army sergeant major. We adored him. You didn't mess about, and he did administer the slipper, but we did have great respect for him. We had fear and respect, we knew that we could get the slipper, but we also knew that he was fair and if we behaved, we would be fine.
I'm inclined to think that a little healthy fear is what's missing in the lives of a lot of kids nowadays. No harm can come to them. Whatever they do!

Oh no, don't you know that those sort of people have all been sent to work in school offices now? Or is it just my DC's school that has demon office ladies with miserable faces who assume all parents must be halfwits?

Yes, teachers far too nice. Not even a neutral comment everything glowing for the first year and a half at school and then I was summoned to a meeting due to difficulties my DC had been having for 'some time'.

YABU

Agree with what has been said before - fear does not equal respect nor effective learning.

At the end of the day, your son has to take responsibility for his own behaviour and make good choices rather than bad ones. All teachers can do is try to provide opportunities for him to make the right choice and encourage him to do so and meet out appropriate sanctions if he makes poor choices.

Also, the teacher has a responsibility to create an environment in which learning can take place. If the teacher screaming and shouting like an army major, it's going to create a stressful environment for the other children in the class.

I see where the OP is coming from, when i was at school we had a deputy head who was ex army, everyone respected him and yes 'we were scared of him', but the sheer thought of being sent to the deputy head if you steped out of line made most students think twice.

We are having a few issues with dss and him bunking off school, when i was at school i would not have bunked off because if the school found out i would have to spend every break time for the next week with the dep head (not something anyone would want to do). I don't think teachers have to shout but there does seem to be a lack of boundries and diceplin in schools and a lack of respect.

I totally agree OP.

I think this is one of the problems with raising (some) boys today.
My DS (14) has always been a boy bursting with testosterone, loud, energetic and boisterous. Also cheeky and has always tested authority.

His primary education was one drippy female teacher after another. They almost all clearly preferred girls and had no control in the classroom.

I had a phonecall from his teacher in year 3 saying he had his jumper on the wrong way round and was refusing to change it. Could I tell him to turn it round?

I have had to put a huge amount of energy parenting my boy but it hasn't been matched by any authority or enthusiasm in school.

Some boys (maybe some girls?) need hard discipline and just don't get it.

genuinely would like to know what teachers think parents can do to get kids to behave when they are not "there"

Take pride in their achievements. Show an interest in what they're doing and how they are getting on. Support the school in any sanctions administered and express disappointment in failure to meet standards. Back up the school e.g. confiscate phone/credit/x-box or cancel planned activities if poor behaviour continues.

And then what noblegiraffe??

"Can't control your anger in lessons? Lets give you a 'time out' card so when you feel the anger rising, you can just walk out to cool down elsewhere"

That's an excellent strategy for dealing with anger. Don't we often tell people in that sort of situation to walk away?

OP, you could arrange to meet your DS's tutor/Head of year with DS present. In this meeting, agree on two or three targets that your DS needs to meet in a set timescale in order to improve his behaviour.. Your DS should then be given a report card that all teachers comment on at the end of each lesson. The outcome can be fed back to you by the school. You can then impose your own sanctions if the targets are not met and repeat until the message sinks in. The school can impose theirs. Reward when the targets are met. BTW, it is not unheard of for parents to be invited into school to observe their DC's behaviour first hand. A teacher in my last school regularly extended such invitations. Students were usually so mortified that she only needed to do it once.

How old is you son? You can't control what happens when you're not there, but you can make sure your son knows how to behave away from home. He also needs to take responsibility for his behaviour.

Isn't this one of Gove's plans? Populating schools with ex-military?

Where are they all, huh?

I need a new physicist. An ex RAF engineer would be just the job I reckon.