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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To expect schools to have big and ugly old skool teachers who can give a b****king

95 replies

JustArgh · 06/12/2011 19:36

Parents evening last week, call home today DS (year 9) in trouble yet again, another meeting at school to "resolve" things.

Am I being unreasonable to expect teachers to sort this out at school themselves by yelling and generally terrifying pupils into submission - or is this frowned upon nowadays?

What's happened to the ex-Army psycho barrelling across the playground to break things up and sort things out with the school halfwits like my DS.

Teachers - why do you have to be so "nice" ?!

OP posts:
twinklytroll · 06/12/2011 20:19

My child is no angel however she has only played up at school twice and both times whatever sanctions were given at school were backed up with force at home. I don't expect or want my daughter to be scared of her teachers, however she is very worried about me finding out if she misbehaved.

If I had been called into another meeting at school ( I have never been called to one) I would be questioning my own parenting.

Marne · 06/12/2011 20:19

I guess its hard for teachers though (not their fault), there are so many rules now and they can get in so much trouble if they break the rules, i actually feel sorry for them as they must have to take so much sh*t from rude kids that wont do as they are told and theres nothing they can do about it Sad.

Its a job that i could never do as i would lose my temper too easily.

Feminine · 06/12/2011 20:20

Society has changed so much, its not the fault of the school that it now adopts this type of management.

I don't think school fits all kids anyway, it is no wonder they act badly within those confines.

But, I am not saying it is alright to misbehave just that it is to be expected sometimes...

I had a very easy going well behaved boy ....something within those school walls has changed his behavior there.

I am still thinking about it.

noblegiraffe · 06/12/2011 20:20

Sara, what do you mean, and then what? I have seen those strategies used to great effect by many a parent and therefore if I contacted a parent about their child, that is what I would be hoping to hear.

Ilovedaintynuts · 06/12/2011 20:20

I attended a meeting with a teacher about his behaviour last year. He had been cheeky and disruptive. His head of year was present as were his father and I. I was spitting feathers. I wanted to see consequences to his behaviour (as there were at home)
To DS:
Why are you so angry?
How do you think your disruptiveness makes others feel?
Is there anything we can do to help?
Is it a personality clash with the teacher? would you like a different teacher?
WHAT? HE NEEDS SOME BLOODY RULES AND CONSEQUENCES IF HE DOESN'T FOLLOW THEM!

Pathetic. I would honestly like corporal punishment for my DS.

Now teachers like to blame everything on the parents.

Do a parenting course - the answer to everything!

CatPussRoastingByAnOpenFire · 06/12/2011 20:21

Also, the teacher has a responsibility to create an environment in which learning can take place. If the teacher screaming and shouting like an army major, it's going to create a stressful environment for the other children in the class.
I disagree. A strong strict teacher will have all kids sitting still and being quiet. How is that not conducive to learning?
My Dcs teachers have no control. They cannot impose the appropriate sanctions, because there aren't any! DS regularly comes home with tales of pupils chatting in class, messing about, being rude to teachers... He spent one lesson, with one pupil sitting under the table playing with his phone. The kids who want to learn, have absolutely no chance. The teacher could do nothing to extract him. How is that conducive to learning?
I'm sorry, I agree with the OP.

noblegiraffe · 06/12/2011 20:27

"Is it a personality clash with the teacher? would you like a different teacher?"

Funnily enough, I have heard that one a few times in my teaching career. It has always been from parents of kids whose 'personality clash' was that they didn't like being told what to do and expected to do it.

I also find that the behaviour of a lot of kids can be explained by meeting the parents.

LineRunnerCrouchingReindeer · 06/12/2011 20:28

I have been in to school to meet a teacher who was having a 'personality clash' with one of my DCs. I listened to and looked at the evidence, apologised to her for my child's rudeness and said I would be speaking to her about her unacceptable behaviour. The teacher had another teacher with her, I imagine for support - because when I said what I said she nearly cried. She thought I was going to chew her up.

On the other hand - the same child also has a teacher who is a fucking psycho and many parents have compained and the teacher is under performance scrutiny.

Tricky one.

twinklytroll · 06/12/2011 20:28

I am not a shouty teacher, mainly because my voice goes squeaky and my face goes red so it would only make the matter worse.

You do not have to shout in order to have an ordered classroom. There are schools where this is an art form worthy of an oscar, and I have worked in those and mostly had very ordered rooms. However, certainly, in your average state classroom children follow instructions and with the exception of a few children there are sufficient sanctions.

The idea of the powerless teacher is a myth peddled for a purpose I don not understand. I sanction children on a daily basis and have never felt as if I had better watch out unless Michael Gove leaps out of my cupboard to arrest me.

If a child was sat under a table playing with his phone and refused to move he would be removed from my room and his phone confiscated. There would then be further sanctions. A child who continually refused to follow instructions would be excluded. To be honest even when I worked in a really tough school that scenario never happened.

Marne · 06/12/2011 20:29

So, were any of us badly effected by teachers shouting?, i can remember one of our teachers would remove the child from the classroom, take him out to the hall way and shout at them (well rase their voice), child was then left in the hall way for 10 minutes to think about what they had done and then returned to the classroom. There was one or 2 children that could handle being shouted at without batting an eye lid, maybe one child who would cry and the rest of us knew it was best to behave Smile.

twinklytroll · 06/12/2011 20:29

I meant to say that with those children for whom the normal in school sanctions don't work it is vital that parents back up those sanctions.

twinklytroll · 06/12/2011 20:31

I think there is a difference between randomly shouting at a class and shouting at an individual child. Very rarely I will shout. To be honest I have a death stare and a low voice that is much more effective. Students also know that I am consistent and meticulous when it comes to sanctions so I rarely need to shout.

noblegiraffe · 06/12/2011 20:32

The shoutiest teacher I ever worked with had a heart attack aged 40.

Shouting is also not good for your vocal cords and teachers need to protect their voices as they are a major tool of the trade.

MixedClassBaby · 06/12/2011 20:37

I don't think that behaviour management is soley down to the parents. Managing poor behaviour requires the school and parents working in partnership, being consistent and communicating well.

Moulesfrites · 06/12/2011 20:40

A strong strict teacher will have all kids sitting still and being quiet. How is that not conducive to learning?

I teach English in a state secondary school. I want my pupils to be able to have lively and coherent discussions in class debates, where they construct fluent arguments and express their opinions with confidence and eloquence. I want them to be able to explore texts through drama and role play. These things are have an important place in the curriculum but they cannot be conducted effectively in a silent atmosphere of fear and repression. I am not feared by my pupils, but I am mostly respected by them.

henrythecat · 06/12/2011 20:40

CatPuss - couldn't agree more about the need for quiet and sitting still etc. My point was that you can achieve that without screaming and shouting (and stressing out the pupils that toe the line).

tethersjinglebellend · 06/12/2011 20:41

Some children respond better to shouty psychos.

Some respond better to softly spoken quiet people.

Some respond better to humour.

Some respond better to complete twats.

Children are different people; they will work better with different people.

henrythecat · 06/12/2011 20:41

shouty teacher does not equal strict teacher

GypsyMoth · 06/12/2011 20:43

Noblegiraffe.... Well I would argue that there is no need for 'anger' for in a geog/eng/maths class in the first place!!

noblegiraffe · 06/12/2011 20:44

I'm a maths teacher and another one who doesn't want my students sitting quietly. I want them engaged in my lesson, discussing problems, throwing around ideas and comparing answers.

A maths classroom where the kids are sat silently working through a textbook afraid to ask for help in case they get shouted at is a less effective maths classroom IMO.

noblegiraffe · 06/12/2011 20:46

Sara, some of these kids have anger management problems caused by factors well beyond the school's control. We deal with them as best we can and forcing a kid to stay in a classroom where he wants to thump another student and call him a fucking dickhead is not good either for that student, the kid who gets thumped, or for the rest of the class when he blows his top.

MixedClassBaby · 06/12/2011 20:52

The child sat under table with phone scenario sounds extreme to me. There should be clear procedures for dealing with situations such as this and if the teacher felt powerless then it suggests that there are huge structural failings in the school's behaviour management methods. Luckily I feel well supported in the school I work at and manage to achieve a positive learning environment without shouting or threatening to hit(!) the students.

CatPussRoastingByAnOpenFire · 06/12/2011 20:52

Op never mentioned shouts, and neither did I. I said strong and strict. My head rarely shouted. But he could if he needed to.
I can shout at my kids, I've also smacked them occasionally, but I rarely do. They know that I'm generally laid back, but if I raise my voice they are in trouble.
I also don't think it is purely a parents job to teach a child how to behave. Everyone involved in the child's life should contribute. Otherwise, where is the consistency? It works in many directions!

nativitywreck · 06/12/2011 20:54

I have no theory, but the best teacher I ever had was a bit scary-you could hear him bellowing at the other end of the hallway.
I don't think he was really angry though, in hindsight. It was more of a strategy.

Once we were all quiet, he taught the best, most lively, interesting history lessons. It was the only class at school I wasn't bored in.

In other lessons the kids wouldn't stop mucking about long enough for us to learn anything, and I became so frustrated and unengaged I barely scraped through my GCSES.

CatPussRoastingByAnOpenFire · 06/12/2011 20:55

Things like the kid under the table occur quite often. I'd be interested to know how teachers would be able to extract him? And as for sitting quietly vs participating, that's fine but if the teacher doesn't have control, the talking and messing about isn't participating, is it ?