to think Cancer Research should rethink some of their marketing?

[MrsCarriePooter]

This is a fairly mild AIBU but interested in what you think.

We were in our local Cancer Research shop this morning and in the window they had a big poster of a woman who had survived breast cancer, but the wording was something about "Vanessa wasn't going to let cancer beat her". I said to the volunteer insider when I was paying that I thought that was a bit offensive, as though those who die from cancer just had decided to roll over and "let cancer beat" them. Was I just being overtouchy? Having had relatives die of cancer I know I could be. The volunteer said "she'd pass my views" on to the area manager.

You're definitely not being unreasonable.

This thread is about as unanimous as I've ever seen mumsnet. Maybe someone should send CRUK a link.

Actually, they also use animal testing in their research.

YANBU. I think this attitude to cancer exists because of how difficult it is for people in general to accept that life can be random and out of our control. It's very hard to accept that the reason one person survives and another doesn't is down to luck, even if that's the luck of having an early diagnosis or good treatment. It's easier to believe that we have control over our lives (and deaths) so if we 'battle' hard enough we will get what we want. (Or believe that if we pray hard enough and live good lives we will be rewarded, but that's another thread...)

Let's hear it for patients being demanding, stroppy and argumentative. Let's hear it for patients being scared, tired and fed up. Let's hear it for cancer survivors being treated like normal human beings, not being lionized as heroes or patronised as suffering saints. And let' s hear it for a health service that delivers excellent quality care, which is what charities should be focusing on, not guilt trip marketing nonsense.

That

D. was brave. And a fighter.

But those two words are far far from the sum total of who she was and she shouldn't have been strong armed by soundbites into outward one dimentionality, because of something she had.

It feels all wrong on my "dehumanising" radar.

YANBU at all , it makes me puke when people talk about "fighting cancer"

It is so disrespectful to all those who die from cancer as if they just didn't bloody fight enough .

And to all those who have cancer and don't live up to the smiling media portrayal of the brave battler and are actually sobbing in the corner and shitting themselves .

Totally agree - I think Danny Baker's description is really apt. I was diagnosed in April and have had surgery and radiotherapy since then. Sometimes I felt so rough as a result of r/t that I couldn't get up from the bathroom floor and just lay there sobbing and hugging the toilet bowl, waiting for the next bout of dry retching. Was I being weak? No, just human. And that's all we can be.

People kept saying to me "You'll be fine, you'll be fine" - do they have inside information that the medics don't have? I know people mean well, but unfortunately there's no handbook available that tells you how you'll feel and how you'll deal with it, whether as a patient or a carer/friend. You just have to react how you think is natural for you, imho.

What has always concerned me is that I don't want to be defined by having cancer. I don't want to be "Poor SweetestThing, she's got cancer". I want to be SweetestThing, who has a lovely family, who does this and does that and by the way, she's been ill" or something like that. Does that make sense?

Sending supportive thoughts to everyone dealing with this nasty disease, whether as a patient or a relative/friend of a patient.

Sorry, that ended up being a bit of a rant!

You're absolutely right. Point it out to Cancer Research head office and ask them to be less offensive and more informative in future.

you could send them this interview with an oncologist from today's Guardian which should be having a word with their writer, Decca Aitkenhead

I was shocked that Aitkenhead presumably also believes in the power of positive thinking because she wrote: 'I can't help asking for a ruling on some of the questions most of us wonder about today. Can a positive mental attitude really cure cancer?'

Most of us, Decca? I don't think so. He put her right but she persisted by asking: 'But is it true?' Dozy cow. I wonder what starsign he is?

Can I say first of all - the very best of luck (n.b. not bravery !) and best wishes to all of you on this thread who are suffering from this terrible illness and of course to those who have had personal experience of losing a loved one or seeing them suffer.

YADNBU.

My Dbro died of lung cancer a couple of years ago - and l was struck by his courage l have to say and his refusal to give in. He insisted on doing as much as possible for himself long after it was nigh on physically impossible to do so. He never said 'why me ?' - he was 59 and a lifelong smoker so he knew 'why' - in fact he often used to talk about the fact there were children in a different part of the building - going through what he was and he often said how much worse that was etc.

So he was 'brave' - tear-jerkingly so in fact. But he still died - reduced from a 6ft plus strapping 14 stone strong man to an emaciated 8 stone bedridden one who couldnt lift a cup for himself within 6 months of being diagnosed.

That was a measure of the destructive power of this awful evil disease - not of my brothers courage - or lack of it. I am sure had he lain on the hospital bed crying with pain and fear, completely resigned that he was going to die (and who could blame anyone for reacting in that way) that he still would have survived for those 6 months and not passed away any sooner from 'giving up' or such like.

On a similiar note I recently rang Asthma Research UK and complained about a postal campaign of theirs. A big green envelope dropped through my door with large letters - on the outside of the envelope (which was the crux of my complaint really ) - 'IMAGINE YOUR CHILD STRUGGLING FOR BREATH AND ALL YOU CAN DO IS JUST PRAY THAT THEY WILL

PLEASE

JUST

BREATHE'

• . I mean on the outside of the envelope ffs - they didnt even wait till you open the envelope to start the emotional blackmail - ( obviously you would then have made the conscious choice to do so and would be half expecting to read stories of children struggling to breathe and so on). But what if that envelope had landed on the mat of someone who had recently lost a child or relative to asthma and very likely would be the last thing they wanted to read ? Also my (now grown up) DS has asthma and as a child I often did watch him fight for breath - so I and thousands of other parents dont have to 'IMAGINE'. Oooh I was vexed - it seemed wrong on so many levels.

Oh yes - dont start me off YADNBU.

YANBU.

My dad has cancer. He's had it for 10 years. It's now terminal.

He hasn't let it stop him, he didn't tell people unless it was (absolutely) necessary, although nowadays he 'looks like' a cancer patient . Like SweetestThing, he's never wanted to be defined by it.

He's had various operations, treatments, medications over the past 10 years and has survived much longer than any of us expected.

The way I think about it is that he and cancer have been running a race and he's always been just in front of it all they way. A couple of years ago it caught up with him and they were neck and neck for a while. Now the cancer has overtaken him and is tripping him up as he tries to get past it. We are about to celebrate a Christmas we didn't expect him to be around for.

When the cancer finally 'beats him' (and it will, there's no doubt about that) it won't be because he has 'let' it.

Cancer Research should be ashamed of themselves.

On second thoughts, here are the lowlights. Don't bother ploughing through the whole thing because it's mostly about Aitkenhead wondering why this man seems so offhand with her. Can't imagine why.

Still, I can't help asking for a ruling on some of the questions most of us wonder about today. Can a positive mental attitude, for example, really cure cancer?

"I think it does a nasty disservice to patients. A woman with breast cancer already has her plate full, and you want to go and tell her that the reason you're not getting better is because you're not thinking positively? Put yourself in that woman's position and think what it feels like to be told your attitude is to blame for why you're not getting better. I think it's nasty."

But is it true? "No, I think it's not true. It's not true. In a spiritual sense, a positive attitude may help you get through chemotherapy and surgery and radiation and what have you. But a positive mental attitude does not cure cancer ? any more than a negative mental attitude causes cancer."

A lot of my friends worry that stress is going to give them cancer. "I don't think so. I don't think it's true. There's a role of the immune system in cancer, but it's not as simple as people make out. It's not as if you get stressed, your immune system gets depressed, and all of a sudden you get cancer. Some cancers are more affected by it, such as lymphomas. But others ? for example breast cancer ? have very little to do with the immune system. There's no evidence that stress gives you breast cancer."

The thing is, there is research that suggests a positive mental attitude can have a positive effect on the immune system. It's to do with negativity/worry, stress reactions and reduced immunity. Or something. I'm sure there's someone who could explain!

But I think it's incredibly crass to suggest that cancer, or other serious illnesses could be cured by a positive mental attitude!

OP I do agree with you absolutely - always get a bit grrr about people 'battling' cancer. I had breast cancer - I had treatment -I wasn't aware of 'fighting' or indeed 'battling'.

I think that keeping your spirits up as much as possible is always a good thing,endorphins and whatnot, but that alone won't save your life.

Sweetestthing I know exactly what you mean and it makes perfect sense. My DGD has Cystic Fibrosis and sometimes that is all people see - not the beautiful loving happy child with a very active full life that she is. People say to her mum and even to me - 'Oh I couldnt cope with that - how do you look at her and not think about it - I'd be in bits etc etc ' [ilk] . But in reality you dont - when I see my DGD I dont see a 'tragedy' or feel like crying - I just see my beautiful DGD - there is much more to her than the CF. Thats not to say I and her parents and other close relatives dont have 'dark' moments when you think the unthinkable - will she make it to adulthood etc but you just cant think like that 24/7 - you would go bonkers for one !

You're spot on OP.
Hopefully the poster will be re worded.
The way cancer research shops hiked their prices up is annoying too.

Folkgirl - thank you 'defined' thats the phrase l was looking for - thats exactly it. My DGD does not want to be 'defined' by her illness and we dont want to 'define' her by it.

limitedperiodonly - I think you're being unfair on Decca Aitkenhead. She's always seemed pretty sensible and level-headed to me. She's only asking him because it's what so many people believe. Her own mum died of cancer when she (Decca) was about 10.

Another brilliant writer on cancer is John Diamond - he was very much agin the "battling" metaphors and also got fed up with people saying "I know you're going to be all right."

I dont want to offend anyone but I dont feel up to reading the whole thread so have scrolled down to the end.
I understand why people living with cancer use the terminology but I agree with the OP with all my heart.

I HATE IT.

NO ONE could have done more than my DD, NO ONE. She did everything asked of her, she just kept going as long as she could.
I fought harder than I ever imagined I could, it was like hanging on to her with every sinew and fibre and muscle.

She didnt let it beat her. The fucker was relentless and it took her.

But if you are fighting cancer right now or someone you love is - you use any words you want or need to. You do what you have to and you have all my best wishes x

She smiled all the time too.

I am so sorry for everyone who has shared their stories of loss and pain on this thread.

I totally agree by the way, why should cancer sufferers think that they have to 'fight'. Is the cancer sufferer who is shit scared and can't think straight somehow less deserving of recovery?

It is demeaning.

((((Mrs DV))))

MrsDeVere - is it you that had photos of your daughter on your profile that were public for a while?

I think I remember reading about your beautiful daughter before. It is an insult to her and the other people who have been affected by cancer to suggest that those who have died could have lived if only they'd tried a little bit harder.

after losing my father 8 weeks ago I thought it was just me being over sensitive seeing these great big posters baiting me everytime I walked past the shop in town but I have now just fired off an email about it.

Yanbu