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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not think my daughter should be made to use a changing room..

435 replies

hairnets · 04/12/2011 22:34

When getting changed after swimming with her Dad?

He told me today that she received a telling off ("major roasting" were his words) for refusing to use her own changing room after he took her swimming. He felt that it wasn't appropriate for her to get changed out in the open because there were other men about in the room.

She's 5.

I obviously think he's BU and I know exactly why I do but interested in what others think before I bang on about why he's BU - If that makes any sense!!

OP posts:
dancingmustard · 05/12/2011 03:48

This thread is a real eye opener on opinions posters don't have but state anyway.
Further back in the thread the OP was dead wrong until someone piped up that he wasn't and then a few posters re-designed their opinions to suit.
This man was spot on and the op and others have serious issues regarding personal space and men in general.

EauDeLaPoisson · 05/12/2011 07:44

Nope no issues at all- fail to see how a mans naked willy being seen by a child is going to harm them in anyway and also fail to see why a naked 5 year old would be offensive to other males in the changing room, you clearly feel very different though dancingmustard.

pigletmania · 05/12/2011 07:53

There is nothing wrong with young children changing in the changing room, and at 5 she would have had an adult with her too in there. I have squeezed myself in a changing room with dd 4.8 years, when we went swimming. Was there not a family room? Some people are very prudy and prefer privacy for themselves and their children, nothing wrong with that, we don't all share the same views.

pigletmania · 05/12/2011 07:55

Yes if dh had taken our dd swimming and had to use the mens for her he would have preferred that they use a cubicle, he comes from a strict Italian family and they are not so liberal on nudity like we are here.

aldiwhore · 05/12/2011 08:08

For me its not about the worry about paedos, its about other people.. and other people are very paranoid, especially other men. Normal men. I'd have made her use a changing room IF she was the only female child in an all male environment, not to protect her from potential weirdos but out of respect to the other men using the facilities.

My sons and I use the family area, if we're in a communal changing room we'd use a cubicle. I HATE communal changing areas anyway.

Aside from personal opinion. Your 5 year old really should be doing as she's asked, so for that, probably deserved a ticking off (though maybe not a 'roasting' or a major telling off).

Other than that worra has it spot on. I don't like kids who aren't my own seeing me naked (or adults for that matter!)

pigletmania · 05/12/2011 08:12

Nudity is a very personal thing, and yes some men might have felt uncomfortable about it, whether you think thats wrong or right, its a fact! You cannot dictate how other people should feel, and yes I would prefer to change in private and exercise the same thing with dd.

pigletmania · 05/12/2011 08:12

Your dh was wrong to give her a roasting though, he should have gone in the cubicle with her, and mabey nextime by a poncho towel to put round her to protect her modesty when changing.

Wamster · 05/12/2011 09:25

hairnets, I think you sound quite unhinged actually and a lot of this is about your dislike of your daughter's dad. Well, tough, you're a grown woman and if you didn't like him you shouldn't have had sex with him (pregnant by accident- sorry, doesn't tend to happen to responsible adult women after a 'few dates'. I admit that it does happen to those in long-term relationships, but those who are just dating tend to be very careful. In other words, I think this is b.s.)

I admit that he let his adult emotions get the better of him and should not have told your daughter off, however, the media constantly tells us that paedophiles are on every corner (actually, children are much more likely to be abused by a relative) so I can see that people get paranoid.
It's not good at all, but paranoia is understandable given the climate in which we live and I don't blame your daughter's dad for his panic and concern.
He seriously needs to apologise make things up with his daughter, though.

This has nothing to do with children being blamed for paedophiliac behaviour at all (i.e. rape comparison) and, if you think that, you're being really, really illogical because while I do admit that some people-wrongly- blame an adult woman for rape owing to her behaviour, I have never ever heard anybody blame a child for that child being assaulted.

Seriously, you need to get over yourself on this issue. Your ex made a mistake but it possible that he did it with the best of intentions.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 05/12/2011 09:30

I am sure that my dh and my teenage dses would be embarrassed if a little girl was in the mens changing rooms with them - maybe, as others have said, commenting on what she saw. I'm a bit Xmas Hmm at the suggestion further up the thread that the men in this situation should all have had to use the cubicles if they were embarrassed - really? All the men should use the cubicles so one little girl doesn't have to?

I also agree with LRD that the dad should have handled the situation a whole lot better, and regardless of the circumstances, it's not right to give a child a 'roasting' because she's afraid of something.

EauDeLaPoisson - I think that your comment that anyone who is embarrassed about a naked body in a changing room should stay home and crochet is ridiculous and callous. I am embarrassed about my body, because I am overweight. I'm OK about it at home, because I am with my family, but in a public changing room, I feel embarrassed. If it were up to you, presumeably I'd have to stay housebound - thanks!

AKMD · 05/12/2011 09:40

YABU. It's not just about keeping your DD safe, it's about having a bit of consideration for the other people using the changing room. Not everyone feels comfortable getting changed infront of children.

Wamster · 05/12/2011 09:42

They may not be comfortable for a range of reasons, however, they may feel uncomfortable not because they are perverts but because they may get accused of it. If hairnets cannot see this, then I really do think that it is her biased opinion of her ex that is blinding her to this reasonable viewpoint.

Jinsel · 05/12/2011 09:58

MY DH and DSs would absolutely hate the presence of a 5 year old girl when they were trying to get changed. They would see it as a gross invasion of privacy in a men's changing room and I tend to agree with them.

It's not always about your child's rights and preferences - there are other people in the world

mummytime · 05/12/2011 10:01

I think the swimming pool is unreasonable. Our local council one has little independent cubicles for everyone, bigger ones for parent and child, and even bigger ones for a while family (and then a couple of class ones for swimming classes).

pigletmania · 05/12/2011 10:28

In this day and age you would expect there to be some bigger cubicles to enable adult and child to change together.

MsScarlettInTheLibrary · 05/12/2011 10:30

Getting changed wherever whenever has absolutely nothing to do with keeping any child or adult safe AKMD.

That's why the OP compared the situation to women being blamed for rape. Safety has nothing to do with where you take your clothes off.

The OTHER reasons why someone might ask their DD to use a cubicle are irrelevant here as they are not the reasons under discussion. If the child's father had said there were others in the room looking uncomfortable then that may well be justified and OP has said as much.

The fact is the child's father asked her to use a cubicle because of his worry about other men in the room with regards his DD. Which is completely unreasonable. I warrant had anyone asked the men in question 'shall I make my DD change in the cubicle in case you see her naked' they'd have been deeply offended. There is nothing wrong with an adult seeing a child naked in an appropriate setting, and there is nothing wrong with a child seeing an adult naked in an appropriate setting.

All this emotive language about loads of hairy dicks and arses squeezed close to a young girl doesn't help anyone. The men are just getting changed, not doing Puppetry of the Penis, and the girl is just getting changed, not sitting naked in the middle of the room with a target painted on her.

The swimming pool isn't unreasonable. They provide changing areas. All the changing at my pool is communal, there are no cubicles, nobody cares and nobody looks - it's a changing room! Not a den of iniquity. That's why OP is NBU.

Wamster · 05/12/2011 11:14

She is wrong to compare this situation to women being blamed for rape. It is, of course, wrong to blame women for being raped, however, sadly it is society's view that some women-through their actions- are 'asking for it'. Thankfully, society is not sick enough to blame a child for any abuse that they suffer.

I agree that the child's father is being unreasonable as chances are there are no perverts in the changing room, however, we are conditioned to believe that perverts are everywhere and given this, he is right to behave as he did.
The bottom line is that although he was probably wrong, he acted with the best intentions. Yet the op cannot see this.
She won't even give him the benefit of the doubt and acknowledge that although he was wrong, he meant well. That's not rocket science, it's easy to see how he felt.
It is comparable to burning witches. Yes, it is ridiculous in this day and age, but do we blame the people for doing it or do we just say that they were misguided and that they meant well at the time? We usually say that they did not know better.
She just dislikes the guy. That is obvious. The underlying theme is that she thinks that he is an oaf, that she is better than him and she wishes he would p* off.
Well, fair enough, but don't blame the guy for his-admittedly unreasonable and misguided- concern.

MsScarlettInTheLibrary · 05/12/2011 11:39

I entirely disagree Wamster. There is a certain portion of society who will blame children or at very least consider then partly responsible for theit own abuse, or believe they enjoyed it or it wasn't harmful. A goodly portion.

Regardless, that idea is irrelevant, OP is not talking about now, as a child, but as the girl grows - she does not want the idea that it is her responsibility to cover up lest she tempt some random into harming her transmitted to her, never mind at such a young age when a discussion about it cannot reasonably be had.

Planting seeds that her body is somehow wrong and to be hidden away is never good and certainly not in a situation where she should be able to change without worry. She would be in no danger regardless, so why put the idea in her head that if she gets changed here, some man may hurt her? Just why?

pigletmania · 05/12/2011 11:41

MsS not everyone is comfortable with nudity, and they have a right to their views, the child's father was obviously not comfortable with his dd getting changed in the open in front of men and thats his right, its his child, ok its not what you might have felt or done, but he did. However, he should have handled it differently, found a cublicle and changed in there with her and not told her off.

pigletmania · 05/12/2011 11:44

Incidently other men might have felt uncomfortable changing in front of a little girl, it does not help that we live in a day and age whereby it seems to be anti men, with all men being seen as being paedophiles by some.

MsEltoeNWhine · 05/12/2011 11:51

And the OP has said that if it was a matter of others being uncomfortable then she would have understood, but that does not seem to have been the case.

A parent doesn't have rights over the modesty of a child, as I think (?) LRD explained very well upthread, modesty is something that comes from within and cannot be felt for you. The child is 5yo and was quite comfortable getting changed where she was, in no danger, and at no risk. A parent may well have the 'right' to impose his view completely unnecessarily upon a child but it doesn't mean he was being reasonable to do so.

I'm now festive, by the way Grin

pigletmania · 05/12/2011 11:59

MrsS whilst they are a child and she is in his care, yes they do Hmm, if the dad preferred her dd to use a cubicle its his right as a father to have her use one, he should have found a bigger one and gone in there with her. As I said, my dh would have been the same, he would have found it uncomfortable for dd to change in the open in front of men, he comes from a strict Italian upbringing, so is not as liberal with nudity. He is entitled to feel like that, same as someone is entitled be be more liberal.

pigletmania · 05/12/2011 12:00

bah humbug not feeling too festive, here have a Xmas Biscuit

WorraLiberty · 05/12/2011 12:02

A parent doesn't have rights over the modesty of a child

Of course they do. We do what we feel is right for our children and if that includes protecting their modesty then so be it.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 05/12/2011 12:05

MsScarlettinthelibrary - whilst I agree that it is not good to be teaching any child to be ashamed of their body, surely it is good to teach a child that there are parts of their body that are particularly 'theirs' if you see what I mean, and that no-one has the right to look at, or touch them without their permission.

I think it might be difficult for a child to understand that it's possible to believe both these things, and if that's the case, I'd rather err on the side of caution, and have my child be a bit private about nudity in front of strangers.

MillyR · 05/12/2011 12:09

Piglet, I'm confused by your posts. The OP has said that her issue with the father's behaviour was that his reason for it was the belief that other men might have a sexual interest in the child. You seem to be condemning people who hold such anti-male opinions, and yet you seem to think the OP is in the wrong.