To wonder how the hell this country got so racist and narrowminded?

[smokinaces]

There is a photo of a letter going round on FB. Basically showing that Aslyum Seekers are getting their gas and electric paid for over Christmas. My god. The comments people are coming out with.

to quote a few:

"What about ones that come over here and get new cars mobile phones etc and we get fuck all. They wouldn't do the same for us if we was that poor and froze we would have our kids taken off us we wouldn't get help to heat our houses up."

"Yeah but a lot of the asylum seekers r terriosts half of them are working for wants his name"

"every tom dick or Harry are allowed into our country to first take all our jobs for half the pay us English need to be paid to pay for our gas electric and every other bill we get thrown at us, secondly to take our placements from our first choice schools cause they got homed near a school of our choice, homed for free!"

"there are english children in this country that dont even have a warm winter coat to wear coz their parents or parent cant a ford to buy one coz most of their benifits go on tryin to heat damp houses and feed them with at least one hot meal a day even if it is only beans on toast.....ive yet to see an under feed immagrint whether asylum seeeker or not and as for designer clothes that under privalaged english child only dream of owning but u see them on the backs of people that dont deserve them (imagrants asylum seekers)"

"im sick to death of working my tits off 6days aweek when im off sick or unable to work and ask for help all i got was £26 a week what a load of bullshit im english born and bred worked from the age off 17 and pay tax all my live and people walk in to this country and get free this free that f##king crap an 90% of bristish people think this to blood sucks, think of the people that fought for this country all them years ago BORN AND BRED"

Seriously?? How the fucking hell did we get to the point where this is what people think? Honestly?? I dont even know what to say to the last two - I tried arguing constructively earlier in the day, but cant even be bothered to waste my breath on the last two. They called me a "goody two shoes" and seem determined to blame everything on "immigrants".

I'm actually ashamed to live in the same town as some of these people.

AIBU to wonder where this country goes from here when this is what crap they spout? Is it the media's fault? or education?

(the worst bit? at least 1 of these people quoted are a 3rd generation European "immigrant" but thats different of course )

Immigration control is all about having power and control over people in a weak position

It is far more critically about ensuring your own taxpayers don't feel cheated and start to support neo-fascist organisations, I would argue.

Actually I haven't said I'm in favour of completely open borders ? perhaps because I'm not. Where one draws the individual lines are an important matter of detail.

But that's not what you asked.

You asked what the UK's historical presence in the world had to do with its current immigration policy ? which is of course part of wider policy wrt EMigration, export of services, political influence, belonging to trading blocs, yadda yadda.

And that's it in a nutshell.

It is nothing to do with taxpayers being cheated. That is a common misconception. Immigrants amount to approximately 8% of our population, yet contribute 10% of our GDP. If the media reported that rather than making out immigrants to all be benefit cheats, there would be much less support for the neo-fascists.

Tianc - that is not what you said at all. Above what you have wrote is due to us being the the Euro

People from say India or Pakistan, although we colonionised them, they still need a visa either Tier 1 (if they have a very good skill set) or Tier 2 (need to be sponsered).

Because we are in the Euro it does give us an open door policy to all of europe. May be this should be looked at until our resources are in line.

Thistledew there is a difference to Immigrants and illegal immigrants. How much does illegal immigrants cost the UK Econimy?

No one has an actual figure of how many illegal immigrants we have. No one knows how many arrive on a daily basis.

You asked what the UK's historical presence in the world had to do with its current immigration policy ? which is of course part of wider policy wrt EMigration, export of services, political influence, belonging to trading blocs, yadda yadda.

But but but....the biggest immigration areas that are out of control are EU immigartion, which is post colonial - you only need to know the last 30 years of history for that. And realpolitik is always the expedience of the day- our wars in Iraq and Libya now are about a 21st century need for oil, not about a 19th century loss of influence to France in those regions.

Where I would agree that those who cannot recall the past are doomed to repeat it is Afghahistan, the British alone have fled Kabul in disgrace 3 times in recorded hiatory already.

It is nothing to do with taxpayers being cheated. That is a common misconception

It is a common perception which some fairly unpleasant people are using to boost their power in risky times - and every peice of data coming from the government does not inspire confidence that they can prove taxpayers are not being cheated. Quite the opposite in fact!

Exactly, MrSpoc. If no-one was 'illegal', i.e. there mere presence in this country was not deemed to be a criminal offence, there would be no incentive for people to work illegally, as anyone who worked here would have access to employment protection. It would be much more likely that they would be able to command a living wage and to pay their taxes.

As I said in my over long post, immigration control has been shown not to be effective. We need to look for alternative ways of ensuring that people (unless disabled or otherwise unable to work, etc) contribute to rather than drain the economy.

As I said in my over long post, immigration control has been shown not to be effective. We need to look for alternative ways of ensuring that people (unless disabled or otherwise unable to work, etc) contribute to rather than drain the economy.

I don't think you can have both open borders and open access to taxpayer funded welfare services.

bemybebe, I doubt that any sensible person is asking Britain to repent for anything, rather people want an acknowledgement that lasting harm was done. British people love to talk about the empire and how they swanned around with a hundred servants clearing up after them. How is it that there is a never ending stream of television programmes with Joanna Lumley, Michael Palin, Paul Merton, Billy Connolly, Gordon Ramsey etc, etc travelling around the colonial haunts drinking in memories of empire?

Maybe white people should acknowledge that practically all the wealth they still enjoy came from abroad, from the empire. You all like to talk as if you did everything by your own efforts. The next time you go to Tate Modern, Britain or Liverpool, please remember that every brick of those buildings is soaked in West Indian blood (Tate and Lyle sugar company).

Zimbabweans have a right to be angry with Britain as they helped the white thugs keep power in 'Rhodesia' up until the 1970s i.e. very recent history. I know white people are hurt by the thought of whites getting slapped around in southern Africa and 'their' land being taken from them but where did these whites get the land from in the first place?

The blacks of southern Africa have been more decent to the whites than the whites ever were to them.

As for the US in comparison to Zimbabwe, the USA was able free itself from the British over 200 years ago and took up abusing blacks and natives in their own right (so wink at that).

Did you know that the empire had 2 tiers? The dominions were where the whites lived, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, South Africa etc and the colonies, where the blacks were?

Learn your own history before you submit smug, ignorant statements.

Oh and the reason some black people don't really care for Poles is because the Poles have come here with their overt racism which most whites in this country keep to themselves.

You can if you have a system by which the bill for the service accessed is sent to the person's country of origin.

The economies of virtually every country in the world are so entertained, particularly if you take into consideration all the workings of the IMF and the World Bank. It would not be impossible for such a system to be put in place.

if we had open boarders then our small island and resources would soon dry up.

We cannot de-class illegal immigrants and provide them with "legal" jobs. there arnt enough jobs anyway for a start.

We need tighter controls and people with enough bollocks to realise this is a real issue.

What aubergine said upthread.

What is the point of 'lest we forget' if we DO forget? Not just the dead of various wars, but why they were forced to fight??

And obviously somebody/some nations racism can never justify ones own, can it?

Being German, I have throught rather a lot with the whole guilt/responsibility thing over many years, and God help me when my boys are old enough to ask questions ...
So, no, I don't feel guilty of the horrors of the Third Reich, but I do feel a sense of responsibility for those less strong/healthy/educated etc than me. Which btw I think we should all have, but I maybe feel more aware of because German history has proven what a misplaced, exaggerated sense of superiority can lead to.

That link to the Refuge Council page was very very informative - thanks!

The economies of virtually every country in the world are so entertained, particularly if you take into consideration all the workings of the IMF

Which has been most entertaining recently :)

As has this thread, but I must now justify my (overtaxed) wages...

creightonb - from what you have just wrote, am i wrong to assume you are not British. There seems to be allot of, well not aggression but im sure you understand what i mean.

In terms of "whites" in South Africa & "Rhodisia", you will find it was the Dutch not the English. - Hence Boar War etc.

i do feel your talking bollocks and have a big chip on your shoulder.

MrSpoc - To go over again - people who are in this country without permission are not able to claim benefits. Many people who are in this country without permission work on the black market. They mostly do not pay taxes and they mostly are not paid a fair, or even minimum wage. If they were given permission to be here, they would have access to employment protection. It would also be much harder for them to avoid paying taxes. The work that they are currently doing now would still have to be done, so magically, thousands of new 'jobs' would be created, because the work that is already being done would count on the official figures. There might be a slight additional cost to society in that they would have to be paid a living wage, instead of one that puts them below the poverty line, but a) the benefit in terms of increased tax revenue would be very likely to be greater, and b) can you really say that the additional cost does not justify someone receiving a living wage?

creighton, spot on.

Thistledew - how much money doe you think is spent on finding these people? How much is spent trying to stop these people. How much damage is done due to illegal immigrants such as

Muggings
drugs
prostitues
etc.

We cannot welcome them with open arms and give them jobs as we do not have enough resources to deal with it. We would soon have not houses, jobs or the basic food we need.

And to agree with criegghton, come on - read it again and it comes across as very Anti-White - therefore it is very racist.

What mrspoc said, which is why it is estimated that 90 to 95 percent of Afrikaan vocabulary is ultimately of Dutch origin.

MrSpoc - 'Rhodesia' has only ever been a British Colony.

South Africa was initially settled by the Dutch mostly for trade. It was declared to be under British rule in 1815. The British and the Boers fought several wars over the next hundred years, but remained a British Colony until independence.

Perhaps retract your accusation of talking bollocks?

Thistledew - 90% of the whites in South Africa are of Dutch origin. Hence why they hate the Brits.

We may have ruled once but it was the Dutch who invaded. Do you not see this.

Dutch invaded and conquered - Britian then beet the dutch. It is not Britain that invaded SA first, so the point is still bollocks.

If we gave everyone permission to be here how many people would be earning the minimum wage? How many people would be entitled to benefit top ups ( tax credits) and could this country afford to pay it?

How much damage is done to illegal immigrants by forcing them into a situation were they have to live outside the law? Your post is coming across as if you think there is a 'class' of people who are and always will be 'illegal', rather than them being desperate individuals who find themselves outside society with no access to genuine, legitimate, lawful ways of making a living.

You are the sort person the OP complained of.

Moominsarescary - that is the point. We need to control the intake as we are so small. It would be great to have lots of spear space, food & money to support the rest of the world, but we dont.

Depends on the area of country, my Yorkshire friends often make disparaging reparks about Pakistanis on Facebook, which I don't like. My Southern or Brummy friends make no such comment.