to be disgusted at these mother's behaviour in Sainsburys cafe?

[rhondajean]

Popped in with DH and DDs at lunchtime.

Three women at the table behind me with five children between them.

All small children, one in buggy, but the rest around 3 -5 years, so not babies.

The children were picking food to pieces and throwing it on the floor. Now I have raised two small children, I know they make crumbs, but this was unreal. They were shovelling food onto the floor, followed by two innocent smoothies which they tipped half of on floor, followed by the cartons, followed by whatever else they could put down.

The mess when they stood up to leave was utterly disgusting and not one of them made a move to clear it up at all. If it was my children, the mess would have been stopped, but I would have been utterly horrified. They continued to talk to each other through the entire incident and didnt stop once to tell the children to stop and pick up after themselves.

Some poor cafe worker had to deal with that after they left. Am I wrong to be appalled? I cant help feeling judgey. Do they let the kids do that at home??

leQueen, ain't no spitting scorn on my part. Just wondering what in God's earth provokes people to attack someone for saying "oh maybe they were having a bad day".

I wish more people could consider alternatives, in general the world would be a much better place if we didn't all get het up about the actions of strangers whose lives really don't impact on ours.

If the cafe worker wants to come on here and have a vent, I would take it very differently.

And I agree that there is a lot of "oooh, I wouldn't let MY child do that". Well, of course not! I don't think many people would/do. Which is why I think that it actually IS statistically more likely that there's more to it than meets the eye, or at least I would prefer to give the benefit of the doubt than just waste my energy being annoyed with randomers.

Sorry working, that's bollocks. Having been the person clearing up, some people aren't having a bad day, they are twats. How anyone can feel okay about themselves knowing that someone on minimum wage is going to clear up after them because they're too fucking lazy to do it themselves, I don't know.

we were in next last week waiting quietly waiting for a pair of shoes. A couple wondered into the shoe department with only one child, who then proceeded to remove every shoe from the display and chuck it on the floor. They didnt even react. Just asked for the shoe size they wanted and walked to the till with it. I asked the shop assistant if he was surprised - 'nope he said happens all the time'.

Wow - not with my kid mate.

That's not what I said. I said if you or someone who actually had to clear up after someone wanted to complain about it, fair enough. However, why general strangers in a public situation feel so strongly about things that they have to post dull threads about how THEY would never let such a thing happen and then come over all outraged at the mere suggestion that these people, who they don't know and will never meet and can't even visualise, might, just might been having a bad day.

Lord in Heaven help us and save us, is it really that horrific to want to imagine an alternative rather than just rambling on about what cunts people you don't know are while using it as an opportunity to laud what you see as your own superior parenting skills while describing basic common everyday manners?

The "you" is not directed, there, by the way. Before anyone says I am attacking anyone. Think "one".

Sorry that was to Christine and I seem to have lost a clause somewhere .

And leQueen, yeah, quite. I've no problem with someone thinking "Slobs" and walking on.. it just seems weird to discuss strangers with strangers if you weren't directly inconvenienced by their actions.

If it's such a dull thread, why are you expending more energy on it than the OP, working?

I once made the very stupid mistake of giving my DS rice when he was younger and we were out having lunch (seriously what was I thinking?). The mess was awful, but after he was done I got some napkins and cleared up all the mess that was on the floor. Judging by the reaction of the staff afterwards I can guess that not a lot of people clean up after their DC.

I am guessing that they aren't lazy scum, neither do their children have SN nor have they suffered any bereavement. I suspect that, like an awful lot of people these days, they beleive that parting with some of their hard-earned cash permits them to behave badly towards those who they are paying. Same reason some people are aggressive and rude towards shop assistants, refuse to say please and thanks - "I'm paying so I don't need to be nice".

I hate threads like these. Who gives a flying toss if a child makes a mess in a cafe?

Because some of us don't like sharing our space with people who can't behave like civilised adults.

Because some of us don't appreciate having to clean up their mess.

Because some of us appreciate manners and people acting pleasantly and politely in our everyday lives.

Because letting kids do stuff like this when they're young means it's more likely that they'll think anti-sociable behaviour is fine when they're older too.

What's that saying about when good men say nothing bad things happen or something?

Orm is right, also. Cuntstomers, I call them.

Who gives a flying toss if a child makes a mess in a cafe?

I care and I think quite a few others do.

It is all about consideration for others; for the people who will sit in your seat after you have gone, for the staff, for other diners who can see you.

Poor manners mark someone out I am afraid and parents who are lazy about manners are doing their children no favours at all.

As a poster said earlier, people think it is ok to behave like pigs because they're not at home. Interesting attitude.

YANBU. That is unacceptable. A few crumbs and a dirty highchair, fine but not all the food tipped all over the place.

I usually clear up as much mess as I can manage and clean the highchair down [polishes halo]. Having been a waitress, cleaning up children's squidged up food is not a nice job

Samandi - I agree with every word. We are of like mind.

I am very, very bored! Off sick and generally trying to occupy my mind as I have a pregnancy scan tomorrow I am worried about.

Also, I find this stuff makes me feel really paranoid about how judgey people are in general. I had a "mumsnet moment" recently on a bus. I had my toddler in his pushchair (a foldy thingy) and I would normally have taken him out in case any smaller babies needed the space. But I am pregnant and have SPD and have been having some complications and so I didn't.

If it weren't for MN, I don't think I'd have thought about it for one second all journey home. However, as I spend too much time reading threads like these, I sat there feeling really quite worried about it all the way home!

I always clear up after my kid, put all the stuff on the trays etc and wipe down the table but I am sitting here thinking, "ooh, there was that time in Debenhams cafe, with the carpet, when he crunched the biscuit into the floor, should I have asked for the hoover?"

It just seems so unpleasant that everyone is SO judgey. I mean, we all judge. It's human nature... but storing it up and going home and writing about it online just seems to me to be a completely different level. It fascinates me in a lot of ways and I wonder why people do it.

So some of you are saying that if you are losing your job, losing your house, have a unplanned pregnancy, a threatening miscarriage, mental health difficulties, SN, an anniversary of a tragic bereavement, a relationship breaking down, domestic violence etc you should be able to go out in our society and let your kids run riot and not do anything. not even clear up after them? Really?
If one person who may have let their kids behave in this way reads this thread and thinks "mm maybe I ought to clear up, apologise,or whatever" then it's worth writing and reading.

Well, we do it for lots of reasons (write about it online)

-We are shocked/upset/angry at what we saw and want to vent.
-To gauge opinion; is it just us with a hankering for a time when manners weren't a mythical commodity?
-Boredom.
-To be told than no, we are NBU so that we can feel righteous in our indignation.

I will probably get accused of being OTT but I honestly think that letting things like this slide is contributing to the shitty, selfish society that we have now. We are breeding a bunch of little emperors who will never know what common decency and respect is. It IS common decency to not leave your shite all over the place. If the parents aren't teaching their kids the basics, it makes you wonder what else they are letting slide.

No... not that you should be able to, but that perhaps it is better for a more tolerant society if people don't always assume the worst of the people around them.

I've never seen anything like the OP describes where I live, so I don't think it is a widescale problem that MN needs to educate people about either. When I worked in a cafe, which I did for very many years, sometimes kids would leave more of a mess than others and it never really occurred to me to think anything much about it. When you have a dustpan and a broom and the expectation is that you have to clear up under a table and wipe it down, well, it doesn't make a huge difference how much mess there is. Okay, the innocent smoothies are a bit much but still, I used to quite like having to bring the mop out . Perhaps I just worked in a terribly boring cafe.

Chandellina, it's not the fact that the parent is actually going to clean up effectively or that it's going to save you, as the waiting staff, from cleaning the area - it's just that the gesture is appreciated.

I would never let a mum clean up a table/highchair/floor after her child as I think that it's nice to have someone else clear up for you once in a while.

Well yes Baubles, I suppose I can see that.

Perhaps people need a new Mrs Beeton that spells out all these things to school children.

It would never occur to me to need to feel righteous about it because I just wouldn't see it as relating to me. Don't get me wrong, I think there are so many things wrong with our society and how communities operate etc but I do wonder what "the rules" are sometimes.

Clearly, OP's example is just clearly one where it's not normal to leave a mess like that, so it is straightforward.. so this makes me think, why the thread? I did however learn a lot about buses when I had a new baby because I wouldn't have considered using a sling as much as I did if I hadn't read MN and realised that the Judgey Eyes of Doom would be on me every time I so much as stepped within 50 yards of a bus that another mother might use (not making a point about SN here, btw!). Yet on the other hand, as last week, now I fret that I am "breaking the rules" by having SPD and not wanting to have a squirmy 2 year old bouncing on my knee and trying to make a break for the stairs!

Yeah kids make a mess... It's fine to attempt to combat it but I'll be damned if I'm playing waitress in a cafe.

I've never seen anything like the OP describes where I live, so I don't think it is a widescale problem that MN needs to educate people about either.

So you've lived ALL over the world, have you?