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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

just to sign the pre-nup, to end all the shit?

108 replies

smithfox · 29/11/2011 11:07

DP and I and the 3 DCS (with one on the way) live in the States (in UK at mo though)

DP is from the US.

We are finally getting our act together and getting married (much to his parents chargrin)

My PIL (basicaly) really dont like me - i have corrupted their son, I'm only after one thing, i'm a gold digger (all said to my face on countless occassions)

DP has a difficult relationship with them anyway - because of me and the fact he doesn't do exactly what they want him to do etc.

DPs parents declared about a month back (before we flew out here) that we must sign a pre-nup before getting married. (they have legal standing in the US)
Now it cant include the DCs but will include money and assests.

We have been together since I was 19 and he was 23, we will have 4 DCs together. - not like a quicky wedding

We both agree that it is stupid and we are not doing it etc.

Except his parents are now saying that if I dont sign a pre-nup. DP wont get any of the money coming his way after their death (he got his trust funds at 21 and 25 but his inheritance if you like) and he can kiss his half of the company goodbye (he is already a partner but he woudnt inherit it - it would get sold either when they die or decide to sell - under the current rules underwritting it they cant just sell while DP and his brother are partners)

DP says stuff them - that no way is he making me sign a pre-nup
His brother thinks they are being equally ridiculos but they wont listen to him either

I dont want to sign - they are horrible people and i am certainly not marrying DP just to get my mits on his money

But this is getting silly - DP isnt talking to them, they wont see DCs till I sign and it isnt just the fact DP would lose out on the company he works very hard for (the money is neither here nor there really), but the fact that would mean my DCs would miss out inheritance and the company (if they would want it)

AIBU to just sign the bloody thing and end all this?? i am at the end of my tether with it all and feel like I'm ripping his family apart because of this

OP posts:
maypole1 · 29/11/2011 18:51

What so they can use cutting him out of their will as a stick to beat him with forever more.

What if you sighn and they change their will any way leaving him nothing

To be honest unless your destitute I would not brother what's gonna happen in 20 years when your in-laws die and might leave you some money

Don't do it don't do it

maypole1 · 29/11/2011 18:53

Next time they called you a gold digger give them a big hug

People will see they are the aggressor

Any time my mil tells me how much she hates me I tell her how much I love her

Makes her look like a fool every time

FabbyChic · 29/11/2011 18:55

Id sign it after you have had it checked over and made sure that in the event of you divorcing, I know highly unlikely you are provided for.

I'd also do as others have said have one privately done after that negates the first one and don't tell them.

tabulahrasa · 29/11/2011 18:56

You're not marrying them... If they're worried about what will happen to their money if they and your DF predecease you, or if they predecease you and you and your DF split up - they need to write a will covering those eventualities.

Any arrangements between you and your DF are exactly that, between you and your DF.

Gigondas · 29/11/2011 19:05

There is nothing wrong in a prenup if it's mutually agreed. Also the no transfer thing to family of family businesses is common (I have seen it where quite happy families want to put protection in so family business shares don't get dragged into divorce or estate issues).

However the issue here is pil forcing issue on op and her dp- being forced to act this way and the consequences it has on their relationship is the issue and tbh only op/do can decide if it is worth carrying on with or without signing it .

And if you do go ahead I would get legal advice or better than that as others have suggested draft your own.

spottydogpencilcase · 29/11/2011 19:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheFidgetySheep · 29/11/2011 19:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pranma · 29/11/2011 19:53

just quietly get married,sign the ruddy pre nup then as soon after as you can go to a solicitor and jointly sign a document invalidating it.Ther is no need for them to know anything about it.

Original poster
smithfox · 29/11/2011 19:57

Hi - Thanks you all.

Sorry if my OP was a bit confusing. DP and DPBro are 'partners' and sit on the board etc but dont actually own any of the business. They jointly control their grandfathers stake. (well 30% part of it 10% is held by the trustee) that amounts to 40%. but currently grandfather still owns the 40%
The way it is underwritten is pretty complex. because of the way grandfather and G-Grandfather wrote it (stops only one person controlling it all)

The pre-nup cant include things about DCs etc.

but they want me to sign over rights to his inheritance (including trustfunds) and things that come from that money (for example our family home - as it was boughtpurely with 'his' money) And while salery etc would be split the profits from his % of company I wouldnt see at all. I'm a SAHM (not really by choice but mat leave and hols are so pants here....) so basically supporting him.
So wouldn't have money of my own - apart from the amount that is just sat in my personal account which is just left over from when i did work.

thank you - still stuck but given me a lot to think about

OP posts:
flyingspaghettimonster · 29/11/2011 20:13

I absolutely would not sign because a) it assumes the relationship isn't going to last - no way to start a marriage b) I would always resent having been bullied into it c) it would make his parents happy and they sound like utter bastards d) if we did break up then why shouldn't I, as the one who birthed and raised 4 kids, not got a fair share of the assets?

So tell them to go feck themselves.

Maryz · 29/11/2011 20:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

suburbophobe · 29/11/2011 20:40

Don't sign away your life choices to some awful people who are control freaks.

How disgusting they cannot even consider your children. They sound thoroughly nasty. My God, how money corrupts....

Glad you and your husband are in this together. That will get you through.

suburbophobe · 29/11/2011 20:41

And by considering your children I mean them doing the best what is best for the parents....and thereby the family.

UnexpectedOrange · 29/11/2011 20:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

suburbophobe · 29/11/2011 20:55

Well, I think you have to get the legals on that before signing and then saying it was signed under duress.

Each country has their own laws on it.

Here it is considered you are an adult and made an informed choice...

tempNamePreNup · 29/11/2011 21:08

Smithfox, I signed a pre-nup when my husband and I got married several years ago. FIL had seen a friend's company split up to settle divorce pay-outs, and didn't want to see similar happen to his. I understood where he was coming from, but he went about sorting it out in a crass way. It was a pretty normal transaction before a wedding for FIL (pre-nups more common in his country) and he couldn't understand why I was upset/ offended - I think it made him think me more a gold-digger, and I thought he was an insensitive c*. Is it possible that your PILs-to-be have similar cultural assumptions? If so, signing proves you aren't a gold-digger, and love your DP for himself. That said you shouldn't sign something wildly unfair - the role of SAHM is important - it is a job too and you shouldn't be left destitute if something happens (death or divorce).
I seriously think both you and your DP need to get legal advice about his position re the business and the whole situation re inheritance in general before you even look at the pre-nup - it might be a stick to beat you with forever, or it might not (my PILs were happy once the document was signed, and didn't put other pressure on us). Then you could draw up a pre-nup between your two sets of lawyers. In the UK at least a pre-nup that is wildly unfair to the poorer party is unlikely to stand up in court, so you should also get advice about how a US court would treat it.

Your DP could also perhaps use this pre-nup as a bargaining point - e.g. get them to guarantee this 'inheritance' in some way (shares in escrow perhaps) or certain %s handed over on particular time-scales - if they don't stick to their side of the deal, the pre-nup clauses could also be invalidated, etc.
A pre-nup isn't necessarily bad of itself, it depends on what goes into it....

However, I also have a number of practical points to make, if you do go for a pre-nup - we signed ours in the UK, so rules might be different in US, but in general:

  1. a document signed under duress can be deemed invalid
  2. both parties should make a full financial disclosure of all their assets at the time of signing
  3. both parties should have independent legal advice (not use same lawyer)
  4. the financially stronger party should pay the legal fees of the weaker party - nothing quite so charming as having your meagre assets wiped out paying for legal advice to protect their massive assets
  5. Anything you want can go in a pre-nup, including provision for children, arrangements for what happens in the event of death of either party etc - e.g. you could get the house put in trust for your lifetime, so you always have somewhere to live, etc, without owning it...
  6. A pre-nup should be signed at least 3 weeks before a wedding - so there is no suggestion of last-minute pressure.

I also think that you could probably invalidate a pre-nup by drawing up a post-nup between the two of you after you got married....

tempNamePreNup · 29/11/2011 21:14

Sorry, that ended up long. And re my last point, I don't know that for certain, but it occurs to me it might do so (certainly in UK post-nups are stronger than pre-nups).

EssentialFattyAcid · 29/11/2011 21:14

Why would you both sell your souls to these people? Do you want to b someone else's puppets?
Ditch the family company, shares and Inheritances in favour of controlling your own lives.

LydiaWickham · 29/11/2011 21:21

If you sign it, you are telling them they are right about you and your family. You are saying they have a right to dictate the terms of their adult child's relationship.

Marry him in the UK, just pop to a registrary office now and get it done. Tell them afterwards that you are already married, and didn't bother with a prenup as because you were married in the UK, you would be entitled to divorce him in the UK and prenups aren't binding here (you can always do a blessing and party later in the states).

I agree that this is the thin end of the wedge, if you do allow them to decide this they will take it as the green light to interfer in all areas of your lives. Once you are married, they'll be angry for a while, but when they calm down, what can they do? Would they really disinherit your DH?

G1nger · 29/11/2011 21:31

Can you get legal advice? Might be worth asking a good lawyer if your partner could make a will that says the opposite of the prenup...?

Whatmeworry · 29/11/2011 22:56

but they want me to sign over rights to his inheritance (including trustfunds) and things that come from that money (for example our family home - as it was boughtpurely with 'his' money) And while salery etc would be split the profits from his % of company I wouldnt see at all. I'm a SAHM (not really by choice but mat leave and hols are so pants here....) so basically supporting him. So wouldn't have money of my own - apart from the amount that is just sat in my personal account which is just left over from when i did work.

It's a haggle, Americans understand this more than Brits. I would argue that any asset put into the marriage (house, trust fund, pensions, bonusses, shares) are split, and company and family wealth is carved out.

It's NU to ensure a divorce doesnt dilute company assets, but I suggest you get a lawyer to argue for normal marriage assets

SoupDragon · 30/11/2011 07:37

Is it not possible to sign something that invalidates the prenup and not tell the in-laws?

Morloth · 30/11/2011 07:48

If you sign it then they will own you.

Proudnscary · 30/11/2011 08:11

But Wilson - what Morloth said. There's a much, much bigger picture here.

creighton · 30/11/2011 09:15

OP can you say what provision is being made for you if the marriage ends? it sounds like they expect you to walk out the door empty handed despite having supported your partner for a number of years. What would happen to the children?

I understand their wish to 'protect' the business that has been built up over generations but surely by this stage, i.e. 4 children later, they can see that you aren't a gold digger. This can't be seen as a traditional prenup where one party goes into the family with nothing, you have already contributed to the family over the years.

If you decide to sign you need to employ your own lawyer to ensure that you and the children are provided for.

Anyway, the prenup would be between you and your husband. The PILs can still disinherit you if they feel like it.

I haven't read the whole thread so maybe these points have been made already.