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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not worry about teachers aged 60+ in the classroom

229 replies

NotaTeacherBasher · 25/11/2011 18:42

No teacher bashing, please.

A recurrent theme in the discussions about the changes to teachers' pensions is that teachers will not be able to retire at 55 any more. They will need to work until they are 65+ if they want their full pension.

Just like everyone else.

So what's the problem with that provided they are fit to work? Obviously some won't be able to and will, presumably, be able to retire on ill health grounds if they're not.

OP posts:
DownbytheRiverside · 27/11/2011 11:33

I'm looking forwards to the reinstatement of Victorian education and classics. Education for the masses by Oxbridge and Old Etonians (yes, I know Gove didn't attend Eton)
I don't mind the aggro and stress from the children. It's the constant abuse and metaphorical kicking from other adults that I mind and am weary of, politicians, SMT and parents.

noblegiraffe · 27/11/2011 11:51

"The education secretary began his address with a reference to a speech by the Victorian statesman William Gladstone in 1879 in which he "invoked Pericles, Virgil and Dryden ? discussed the merits of the Andrassy Note and the Treaty of San Stefano and ? outlined six principles of Liberal foreign policy".

Gladstone's speech was not made in Parliament, but to a crowd of landless agricultural workers and miners in Scotland's central belt, Gove pointed out. "I think the most striking thing is how different the public of 130 years ago were. Or, more specifically, how different were the expectations that the political class had of that public," he said."

I desperately want to know how the speech was received.

noblegiraffe · 27/11/2011 11:53

"It's the constant abuse and metaphorical kicking from other adults that I mind and am weary of, politicians, SMT and parents."

I have to agree with this. I love teaching, I (mostly) love the kids. But dear god I didn't sign up for the shit that has been heaped on me merely for being a teacher. We are apparently the cause of all society's ills and expected to also be the cure.

duchesse · 27/11/2011 11:55

I think that the raising of retirement age is a bit of a red herring in terms of "will people be fit enough to do X?". I can foresee that people will have several careers over the course of roughly 50 years of working. It's already happening with middle-aged people retiring from one job and moving to another that suits their lifestyle better. I think that this is what will happen more and more in the future.

If you move to another job at 55 or 60, you have the option to delay your pension and thereby not have to take it at the lower rate. What may have to also happen is that people be released from locked-in schemes that they cannot pay into unless they are working in the industry and everyone to shift to a personal pension plan. It's the only sensible way of managing careers that are multi-faceted even now and likely to become more so.

duchesse · 27/11/2011 11:59

Oh, I also think that pensions are far too complicated to understand and administer, and people, understandably in view of employers dipping their hands in the pot since the 90s, have no faith that they will get what they think they are paying for. It still seems incredibly easy for a dodgy employer to randomly raid pension funds or for them to go bust and leave people who have contributed for 40+ years destitute and reliant on State pension and benefits. That needs to be addressed before I see most people willing to pay into them.

twinklytroll · 27/11/2011 12:09

I am not being ageist. As I approach my forties I have to avoid excessive giggling in the classroom as I will wet myself . I often have to run to the loo between lessons. I can't imagine that improving with age.

As a teacher the older I have got the more I have struggled . I used to be one of the young ones who could work from 7am till 7pm then go out for a few hours come home do an hour of work and then start all over again in the morning without batting an eyelid. Holidays used to be for adventures. Then the time came when I could cope with the work but could not cope with having any kind of social life in the week. I would be tired at the start of a holiday but a day or two in I was raring to go .

Now approaching my 40s I struggle to keep up with the whippersnappers . I work in a school where lots of us get in early and leave about 6/ 6.30 pm. I find myself now utterly exhausted at half five and I struggle to keep going . Whereas my younger colleagues are skipping out of the door I am wondering how I am going to cope with a few more hours of work. I am starting to slow down and I forget things . Half terms are now just a chance for me to catch up.

I know I have found this job harder and harder as I have aged. I know the job has aged me. When I return from the summer holiday every one always says that I look 10 years younger.

Yes there are some amazing older teachers out there but I not being ageist by saying that I know I won't be one of them.

twinklytroll · 27/11/2011 12:11

I do think we have to accept that many of us will have to do another job for around 10 years before retiring. I hope that I can do something education related.

SardineQueen · 27/11/2011 12:34

"Concordia, I'm not saying that there aren't other jobs that are also important and that you want to get right and have the best staff in to do. You don't want operations to be carried out by people who are knackered and past it either."

This comment jumped out at me. Such a dismal view of older people. We're talking people in their 50s and 60s - knackered and past it? Bloody hell.

Incidentally there are plenty of people these ages working as doctors including surgery. Consultants at the top of their game seem to keep going forever, my grandfather worked into his 70s, my father worked well past 60 as well.

SardineQueen · 27/11/2011 12:37

My mum OTOH was more knackered and past it at 60 when she retired. The thing that had knackered her was not her job as a hospital doctor, but bringing up her children and "looking after" her husband and house. Cooking, cleaning, laundry, floors, going to the shops, day in day out. That is a terribly wearing job (which I have always tried to get her to do less of but she wants to "look after her menfolk" properly) and there is no retiring from it.

beatenbyayellowteacup · 27/11/2011 12:37

snap to both

noblegiraffe I love teaching, I (mostly) love the kids. But dear god I didn't sign up for the shit that has been heaped on me merely for being a teacher. We are apparently the cause of all society's ills and expected to also be the cure and I'll add that everyone seems to know how to do my job best because they went to school too, like someone upthread said,

and twinklytroll Half terms are now just a chance for me to catch up. I know I have found this job harder and harder as I have aged.

And I think the two points are related.

valiumredhead · 27/11/2011 12:39

One of the best teachers I have ever met, actually she was the best teacher I ever met, was brought out of retirement to work for a bit in a failing school - she was amazing and soon whipped a particularly rowdy challenging class into shape!

YANBU

2old2beamum · 27/11/2011 12:51

Just imagine being having open heart surgery performed by a 68 yr old surgeon!

valiumredhead · 27/11/2011 13:09

Why is that a bad thing 2old?

SardineQueen · 27/11/2011 13:11

Yes why is that a bad thing 2old?

BTW about 2 posts ago I said "Incidentally there are plenty of people these ages working as doctors including surgery. Consultants at the top of their game seem to keep going forever, my grandfather worked into his 70s, my father worked well past 60 as well." so I gues your comment was aimed at me?

DownbytheRiverside · 27/11/2011 13:12

Depends how good the eyesight, how steady the hand, how sharp the memory,how up to date on all current practice, if she's capable of standing for that length of time and if she's just come to the end of a 72 hour shift.

SardineQueen · 27/11/2011 13:17

It's junior doctors who do long hours. My mum had a normal working day, wasn't on call or anything. She worked in theatre. It is not the case that top consultant types are doing those hours. Most of them split their time between NHS, private and golf course Grin

noblegiraffe · 27/11/2011 13:17

I'm betting if we gave fitness tests to a group of people in their 60s and 70s, performance would decline on average as age increased. Anyone like to bet otherwise?

SardineQueen · 27/11/2011 13:19

What about their enormous experience?

And I would be willing to bet that someone like my dad in his 60s is fitter than many people younger than him. Which is a general depressing trend in society.

Some really horrible views about older people on here.

DownbytheRiverside · 27/11/2011 13:23

'Most of them split their time between NHS, private and golf course'

Whereas I'm in school from 7.45-5 or 6, with an hour and a half commute a day, deal with my family's wants and needs, do another couple of hours work every evening and then go to bed.
I drive past the golf course... Smile
So, consultants work part-time?

SardineQueen · 27/11/2011 13:26

downbytheriverside what strange posts

first you said that you wouldn't want a surgeon who had just done a 72 hour shift

then when i pointed out that it's junior doctors who do the long hours, and they wouldn't be expecting a heart surgeon to work for 72 hours (I mean, seriously?) you make a crack about being part-time

Now I know that contracts have changed in the last few years so I may well not be up to date

BUT you don't seem to be happy. Do you think NHS consultant surgeons should be working 72 hour shifts? Or not? Given that you don't seem happy either way.

DownbytheRiverside · 27/11/2011 13:27

I wonder how many posters on here going on about how hard they will find it are over 45, and how many saying they are being OTT are under 40?
Oh, not to forget that when I'm 60 I'll probably be managing my parents' care as well.
I just don't think you can be dismissive without reflection, I thought I could go on forever, undiminished when I was 35 too.

DownbytheRiverside · 27/11/2011 13:28

I don't think anyone should be working 72 hour shifts.

SardineQueen · 27/11/2011 13:30

I think the assumption that anyone over about 55 is "knackered and past it" is a horrible one. That's it.

DownbytheRiverside · 27/11/2011 13:31

I'm happy.
I'm usually happy.
But it's like all those that insist they will come back to work FT after maternity leave and Nothing Will Change. They are talking theory rather than reality beciuse they have no first-hand experience.
I know I will find it hard to teach in my usual dynamic, physical, full-on style at 65 or 70. And that the learning of the children I teach will be the poorer for it.
Just like the midwife saying she wouldn't be able to cope with active labour, because the mother would need to be on a bed.

noblegiraffe · 27/11/2011 13:33

I'm only 33 and I worry about teaching when old. I know how hard I found teaching when pregnant and how much less active I was. When I set an exercise, instead of pacing around the class checking on everyone's progress and pointing out errors, I was sat on my chair because I needed a rest from standing. I know that the kids weren't getting as good a deal as they normally do from me. Luckily I was only heavily pregnant after exam time because I don't think I'd have had the energy to cope with the lunchtime and after-school revision classes or preparing last-minute resources tailored to their needs.