Poxy Chelsea Tractor Brigade

[fuzzynavel]

Don't even need to ask if I'm being unreasonable because I know I'm not.

These ridiculous tanklike constructions being driven around London is just damn selfish.

Do these people think that "rough terraine" is just round the corner from Fulham High Street or something.

Euro NCAP's secretary general Adrian Hobbs says children are in greater danger if hit by a 4x4 than an ordinary car, because the height of the front-end means they're more likely to injure their head and chest.

lockets yep that's my feeling about them. No problem with people who live down farm tracks, but people who have them in cities are prioritizing their safety over that of others.

Hatwoman to answer your question - Yes I do think there are circumstances where it is "ok" to drive a 4x4 and I know a few people who answer this description. They are:-

• a farmer I was at school with whose sheep farm is in North Yorkshire, very snowy in winter, hilly, lots of driving across fields, often needing to pop a poorly sheep in the back of the car - not so easy in a hatchback.
• a friend who is a GP in a rural practice - often needs to get to farms/isolated houses in the snow when he's called out to someone who is ill
• another friend who is an architect, again lives in a rural area, often driving off road and across mud to get onto building sites (if he was an urban architect it wouldn't be necessary, but where he is having a 4x4 makes a huge difference)
• some of my family who live in outback Australia and drive through two creeks and over miles of dirt road every day on their daily commute to work and school.

In those circumstances a 4x4 makes perfect sense. But I can't imagine the circumstance that you're asking about ie. why would an urban school run mum be driving in 4x4-necessitating conditions regularly enough that they'd need to buy a second car if they didn't already have a 4x4? If they go to the local school in London, then they're very local because the catchment areas are tiny.

I live in North of Scotland, in quite rural area, have ds's, dog, horsey stuff, and big black 4 x 4, which I will not apologise for. I also have the necessary driving skill to be able to park it and manouevre around whatever obstacles are in my way (fallen trees on farm road mostly). I use it for the school run and shopping too, because I can't afford to tax and insure another smaller vehicle for that, but maybe if I lived in London - perish the thought - then I'd feel differently about my beloved "tractor".

Am I the poorest churchmouse here? I can't afford to go skiing and have a 4x4, I don't think I ever will be able too. But that's ok as I don't like skiing (I have tried it). I drive a toyota yaris that's 8 years old. I would love there to be a 2litre engine under the bonnet, with the same outer shell. I like my car, but despair sometimes of it's lack of ROAR.

I hate them because;

1. The drivers always expect me to maneuver into the gap so they can pass....never ever has a chelsea tractor been the car to move on tight roads.

2. They are often terribly parked, recently I was completely blocked in either side by two of these things, I had my DS's with me and had ask someone to look after my kids while I climbed in and reversed to actually open the back doors of my car.

I must add I accidentally scratched the cars, involved selfish feckless drivers.

becstarsky - the realistic london/chelsea/fulham-based answer is weekends spent in more rural settings. You are probably right that the vast majority of such vehicles used in london are not bought because they are also used where they are needed - but it's always struck me that there are flaws in the "not necessary in the city" argument

Where I live now (not London) town and country are extremely close and it's perfectly possible for those living in the suburbs and using schools in the suburbs to have jobs that involve regular rural travel inc to isolated locations. farmers live in the 'burbs because they can't afford housing in the rural areas.

Yes if a farmer lives in the 'burbs then it would make sense. But not a chelsea mum who says 'oh but we need it for driving to the second home in Devon at the weekend'. I have heard that argument - from someone who was dissing "other" 4x4 drivers who drove theirs when they weren't 'needed'. But she 'needed' hers because every Friday they drive little Persimmon down to the South Hams. Which clearly requires some kind of army-style convoy. She was assuming that I was also a 4x4 driver because I'd mentioned that we go camping a lot and she ended her comment with 'But we need ours, don't we, those of us who spend real time in the countryside?' And when I said that our family goes camping for a month every summer with a 2 door hatchback she looked at me like I'm mad. Perhaps I am...

I used to be anti but love mine. Don't use it a lot. I do a lot of walking, public transport to/from work. I drive it considerately (agree a lot of people don't) and avoid crowded cut throughs. I like buying a car that's designed and made here and helps keep a whole bunch of hardworking people in the Midlands in a job. Including a member of my family. Feel safe and very comfortable driving it. Just don't see I should or shouldn't buy a particular type of car because others have a view on it. My car, my choice. Happy driving/walking/bussing/cycling to you all, no matter what you choose.

Neighbour brought a ridiculous fuckoff 4x4 truck thing 'in case it snows again.' Excuse for a penis extension really.

'The beloved defender has been redesigned to meet EU specifications regarding safety and environmental concerns. Some 4x4's coming out of the factories today run on LPG, does yours? '

Some have our 14 year old range Rovers converted to LPG anyway. If we didn't have it dh would be trying to retrieve gliders from fields in my Saab, and would completely bollox my suspension, hence the RR. Having had 10 inches of snow where we are in Belgium last winter, the Rangie was very useful as we couldn't get my car out of the drive. Coming home necessitates driving up a hill down which all the Belgians were sliding as they couldn't get traction to get up.

I dunno. It can be a real trial to get the GWiz over the humps on Church Road on the way up to Wimbledon Common . Good job it fits in the space between them providing nothing's coming the other way

Personally I prefer the smallest car I can get away with. You can fit in small spaces, squeeze past other cars in narrow lanes and not feel like you are driving a tank.

I drove a ford puma until it decided to die halfway down the M4 about 6 months ago. Everyone was convinced it must be a nightmare because it was tiny and only had 2 doors. It was brilliant. No space was too small and you could wedge it in against pillars in carparks so no-one could block your doors. I didn't find it any harder to get DS in and out of his car seat in a 2 door than a 4 door and we generally had more space to get the door open.

It was also brilliant down the country lanes round us when going against the flow of the rush hour rat-run traffic - I could fit through in places where I would now have to reverse if I meet someone.

After the puma died I briefly drove a massive audi that DP had leased through his work. Me and the audi did not get on. I used to glare balefully at parking spaces I could once have fit in, and I was constantly trying to squeeze through 2 inch gaps to get in and out.

We compromised on a cheap second-hand mid-size audi - it is a fairly normal sized car and I still think it is too big!

The other thing about the puma was that it was bizarrely sturdy in bad weather/terrain conditions. The winter that London ground to a halt because of the snow I got to court in the puma with no problems, driving past 2 stuck 4x4s and making it up a hill that no-one else had even tried. It just kept trundling on whatever was going on around it.

[sniff] I miss the puma.

Tbh, by driving one of those bloody things you're just waving your insecurities in the air:

"Look at me! I've got loadsa money!!!"

It's just sad.

(This of course excludes people living on mountains, farms, working in construction, GP's in rural areas etc)

All cars are a status symbol, and it your own perception of a brand will affect what you buy and how you view others.

I don't accept a single word of that. Who gives a Fig about what status is conferred by what anybody else drives. It's a utility object, it gets you from A to B, with varying levels of associated convenience (or inconvenience). That's all any car ever is or can be in my mind. Your brand of car can never say anything flattering about you.

I have 4 kids and rather reluctantly drive a 7 seater (Kia Sedona). I loathe it, giant inefficient terrible-visibility hard-to- park and turn bus. I hate sitting so high (why the rear visibility is so bad) & using so much fuel. Why anybody would prefer to drive a too-large hard to park expensive-to-run vehicle, unless circumstances absolutely compel them to have a vehicle like that, is wildly beyond me. I keep trying to persuade DH to go back to a 5 seater Estate.

Stuckforwords

My shoes, bag, clothes, house all show to some extent how much I have to spend...it is only natural my car would do similar. Any purchase will! Do you want people with money to not spend it?! Surely what car people buy depends on their budget? One mans Kia is another mans Rolls Royce. That is why there are cars for every budget surely!

"My shoes, bag, clothes, house all show to some extent how much I have to spend."

Really, why? Do you spend the maximum amount possible on them? Do you delibrately buy the most expensive shoes you possibly can? Why would you do that? I don't. I buy the shoes that I want, I don't buy them in order to show how much money I have. I won't reject the ideal pair of shoes if they happen to cost £5 - I'd be over the moon!

What I am getting at, is that displays of conspicuous consumption often mark out a person as having a need to prove something to themselves or the world. "Look at me, I've made it!" It's insecurity at it's best.

I'd turn your words around; surely what car people buy should depend as much on their needs as their budget?

I don't think possessions do necessarily show your true financial status. We have some friends, she's lovely but absolutely a trophy wife, spends half her time having beauty treatments, they change their Discoveries/BMWs/Mercs every year but I know that they have an interest only mortgage which they have no hope of paying and the cars are always on finance and they are permanently overdrawn. She has Mulberry handbags and all that stuff on her credit card

She looks down her nose ever so slightly at me because I drive a 9 year old Ford Focus which is on its last legs and have only ever had 1 beauty treatment. We do however have a big house with no mortgage and money in the bank. My clothes are often from Sainsburys and Tesco.

I'm sure if anyone saw us together they'd assume she's rich and I'm poor

But why is it showing off to want to drive a luxury car (not just 4x4) cant it be as simple as wanting maximum comfort? I test drove a jag xk...it was incredibly comfortable, beautifully crafted interior, far superior in comfort especially to any other car I had driven. What is wrong in wanting to sit in something like that rather than a basic model fiesta for example? If you have the money why not enjoy it?!

Mumble, good point, people can own a million designs bags and have no cash! I'm just saying my car is not the only thing I own which might indicate my budget in life.

I agree needs have to play a part, why wouldn't they? I ruled out the xk cos it had no back seats, that's why I sold my 911, but needs coupled with budget meant I didn't have to buy I car I didn't find fun to own.

Oh well, drive what you like, I don't think they're all that stylish, if I'm going to be shallow about things.

I drive a Fiat 500. Like small cars, me. Kungfu, I used to have a Puma, great car. I miss mine too!

Volvo and Audi do not have three fullsize seats across the back (neither does the Range Rover). The Land Rover is the only car which fits three young children in car seats
Bollocks. My Citroen Xsara Picasso has three proper seats in the back. No doubt though that certain people wouldn't "be seen dead" in such a car...

Heh heh heh Travesty, think you've got it on the nose there!

My lovely friend has three full size car seats in the back of her Citroen Berlingo but if the Chelsea Tractor brigade are too snobbish to drive a Zafira or Picasso I'm fairly certain they wouldn't want to be seen dead in a Berlingo .

Flossie - the really annoying thing is that my puma isn't entirely dead.

It needed a new engine and it wasn't going to be cost-effective so BIL (who is hugely into cars) said he could get parts cheap through work contacts and they could do it up together as a track car. DP wanted to learn how so we agreed - I also fancied trying a track day in it. Whereupon BIL took car away, got some work contact who owed him money to fix it up for free and seems to have forgotten the agreement was to do it up together and share it, and for BIL to sell it further down the line to get his money back, and he seems to have decided it is his to keep. So we have never seen the car again and we can't exactly say "oy, where's our bloody car" because it was his mate who did it up.

I am tempted to ask him for the scrap value for it......