to cut contact with my mum because she is racist

[Anon122]

My mum makes a lot of comments about "pikeys" which I find offensive and deeply distasteful. I think these comments are racist, but please don't turn this into an argument about whether or not "pikey" is a racist term. Even if you don't consider it to be racist, the comments are still offensive and disgusting. For example, today I was talking to her on skype, and she said she doesn't feel safe going to the village shop. This is because the pub next door to it attracts people who she is calling pikeys. I told her that I find the term offensive and that it is generally considered to be racist. She said she doesn't care and (quoting here) "they should be burned. Or pikeys should be drowned at birth". I don't believe that my mum would genuinely support genocide, but she doesn't have any qualms about saying these kinds of things semi-publicly and in front of my dc.

Following the comment which I quoted above, I hung up the skype call and I'm now crying. I am pregnant and hormonal atm, so maybe I'm overreacting. But this is a reoccurring issue which my mum and I have argued about since I was about 14 or 15. She grew up in a small village with very closed-minded parents and has always considered these kinds of comments to be normal. I find them deeply offensive. I have tried explaining hundreds of times why I find comments like these and others like them offensive and inappropriate. For another example she refers to the shop in the next village as "the paki shop" because the people who own it are black (and almost certainly not from Pakistan). When I call her on how racist that is she mocks me by calling it "the native American shop" (for no apparent reason) instead. When I try to explain this to her she accuses me of being a snob, she tells me that going to university changed me (I was the first person in my family to go to university) and says she thinks I must have been swapped in the hospital when I was born, because I don't fit in with the rest of the family. My dad is much better than my mum, but he never bothers to call her on her comments, although he has always backed me up when I have. Both of my siblings and many of my mum's friends use similar language, and they think I don't have a sense of humour when I say that I find it offensive.

I have actually threatened to stop my mum from seeing my dc if she makes racist comments in their presence, but she doesn't seem to take it seriously. She brushed these threats off by saying that I have nothing to fear because I'm obviously happy with the way I turned out yet I grew up hearing her racism. She also likes to remind me that the only reason I managed to go to university and become a snob in the first place was because she made it possible for me. (This is not strictly true, my parents didn't give me any emotional or financial support during any of my degrees, but I think they believe they did, and they are generally proud of me).

So, AIBU to cut contact with my mum because her racism upsets and offends me? I know I'm not going to change her but I don't want to keep hearing these kinds of comments and I don't want my dc to ever hear them. But I also don't want to make things awkward for my dad, who I don't want to cut out. And I don't know if it would be better for my dc to not have my mum in their lives, or to have a grandmother who they don't really see that often, who makes the occasional racist comment (which if I'm honest I probably can teach my dc to ignore or explain to them why it's wrong).

I think it's an over reaction on your part. How would you feel if your kids stopped contact because they disagreed with you about something? Especially if for most of your life it was perfectly acceptable but you haven't kept up with the times?

I've put my father-in-law on notice for his constant racist jibes, with full support from DH. He will be banned from seeing DD if he doesn't shut the fuck up basically. I'm not having her hearing the crap that comes from his mouth. She goes to school in a very multicultural environment, she has masses of friends from all sorts of back grounds. I don't want her thinking this is anything other than completely normal.

I've resigned myself to hearing him bitch about black people, because he is a sad, lonely man (gee, I wonder why), but I am big enough to withstand it. DD is not.

YABVU if you cut off from her. She's your mum. Warts and all and that. You might offend your own kids one day and you might regret setting that precedent.

My Gran thinks that black people sitting on the bus are rude and inappropriate. I have had many conversations and words with her but would never stop speaking to her because she is my gran and is squishy

YANBU - she doesn't sound like a particularly nice person Does she feel jealous of you going to university so has to make every effort to mock you or complain that 'you've changed', I wonder?

YANBU to feel upset by your DM's comments. They are distasteful and ignorant.

However, you are pregnant and hormonal and please don't cut off your nose to spite your face. As you say, she is not going to change - but to threaten your relationship with your Dad would be so sad. Your DC deserve a relationship with their GP (and you need to educate your children that what Granny says is not nice etc). I think you have much more to lose by cutting her out of your life. Please don't be hasty.

I think cutting contact is too far but you have my sympathies. My parents are just the same, paki shop, asking what I want from the wogs etc. I just tell them that it's inappropriate, racist and we don't speak like that. And that when they want to speak reasonably, especially in front of the DCs then I will be happy to talk to them/spend time with them.

It's hard!

Just because something was acceptable doesn't mean it's therefore acceptable to carry on now - especially if you've been asked to stop. I would't let my DD be exposed to language like that and have already called one family member up on using racist language in my house and warned them next time they will be told to leave.

Mine's the same and it's hard to listen but there's nothing we can do. When I'm faced with a dying woman in a chair who can't move, and she says stuff I find grotesque, I don't know what to do. There's no good answer.

Also OP, have you never pissed her off then? Did she cut you off everytime she didn't like what you did and said? Use her comments to educate your dcs about racism. They're going to meet people all their lives on and off who hold those views. Better to prepare them for it.

Don't cut her off. Like others have said, she is your mum. When she makes such comments, just let her know you don't appreciate them and would she mind not doing them infront of you and yours. She will probably take the hint and keep her mouth shut.

My mil is also on notice last Christmas was awful and we have made it very clear why we are not their this year

I am black wouldn't encourage oh to stop contact with her but we defiantly keep her at arms length and wouldn't be having much contact with the grand kids who she thinks are ok because their not full wogs like me

Thruaglassdarkly I don't think pissing someone off and being racist is the same to be fair

I long for the day when my mil would just piss me off rather than making slave jokes or calling me a drake

Darkie

Maypole That is horrendous. I caught a few of DH's family referring to me a shiksa (a non-jewish girl who likes to hook up with nice jewish boys) and I went ballistic. Then I pointed out that I was descended from rabbis, which technically put me higher up the totem pole than them. That shut them up.

Maypole, that's awful . That's an outrageous rejection of who you are on your MIL's part, so it's more than a clash of ideas.

I know what you mean about being pissed off and being offended by racism not being the same thing, but I was trying to suggest a common principle of loving ones closest relatives warts and all, even when you don't like the way they think about things. Obviously, there are lines to be drawn when it comes to issues of abuse, neglect, abandonment etc. But to cut your own mother off because of the way they think?

OP - I think you answered you question in the last line of your post. You know there's a better way than disowning her.

Perhaps everytime she starts spouting off in front of the children, tell her to stop it or you'll take them home and act on it. She'll soon get the message. Might actually make her question her ideas.

I forgot to mention, my mum is only 53 and has lived her whole life in the home counties, so racism has been unacceptable for the majority of her life too.

Thruaglas - My relationship with my mum has never been a close one and she did actually make me homeless several times when I was a teenager and refused to let me come home in university holidays because I wouldn't do what she wanted me to. Those issues are unrelated and now largely resolved, hence not mentioning them in the op (this is not a drip feed because I am not holding that against her or counting it as a reason to cut contact).

Snowchains - I have been calling her up on the use of words like pikey and paki, and on making pro-genocide comments since before I had dc. She is not going to take the hint. I sometimes wonder if she intentionally makes comments which she knows offend me because she knows it puts me in a position where I either have to bite my tongue or we end up rehashing the same old conversations. For example if I bite my tongue and try to change the topic she will not let it drop - she does on to say how pikeys have taken up residence in a local farmers' field and that normal people wouldn't be allowed to get away with that but how they think they're above the law and that you can now be sure there will be a local crime spree until they are moved on. If I continue to force a change of topic the conversation turns to how I'm such an idealist leftie who has no idea how real people live now that I've become posh. It's not even always possible to anticipate when she's going to go on to start on something racist and cut her off before it starts, because the most benign things can set her off.

Although I am prepared to accept that I'm probably acting rashly and might regret cutting her off completely. WIBU to not speak to her until she apologises for her offensive comments?

I think that the fact that you have never been close and that she's treated you badly in the past is (understandably) partly informing your reaction to her here. Even though you say it's resolved now, it doesn't sound like you've been on the receiving end of the unconditional love you should have been given as a child.
Perhaps give yourself a bit of distance for a week or two. I think she should apologise, but she may not if she genuinely doesn't see the error of her ways. Will this not make you more annoyed, if you ask for an apology and don't get it I mean? Perhaps when you're calmer, try to have a chat about how all this makes you feel and say that you don't want your children to hear her talk that way. You may need to go as far as saying that if she does, you're likely to take them home. I think you'll only have to do this a couple of times before she sees you mean business.

I think threatening to take them home is going to be better than threatening to stop them seeing her, as it's more likely a threat you can carry out.

(Obviously, you CAN stop them seeing her, but she probably thinks this is unlikely to happen, so it's not very effective as a threat perhaps).

Maypole, please may I call you a drake... Because it did amuse me

Your
Mil sounds like my gran

It's too upsetting for you to see her for now, so just don't make the effort until you feel you can take it. You don't have to make any forever decisions, but it'd be reasonable to plan 1-3 weeks at a time for now, which could mean setting dates in future until which you know you just won't make any effort.

It's not just about racism, is it? It's about respecting your mutual differences, & how offensive you find her words & not even trying to moderate them. She sounds rather selfish, tbh.

I think saying that it's ok for old people to be racist because it used to be acceptable is a bit rubbish. Just because lots of people were racist doesn't mean that it was ever acceptable. It's pretty obvious that being rude about a group of people based on the colour of their skin is wrong.
If your mother is saying these things in front of your children I would stop her seeing them until she gives you her word to stop

It sounds to me like there's a lot more going on than just her racist remarks.

But to deal with just those for now, if you don't want to take the drastic step of cutting her off (yet) this is what you could do:

Every time she uses a racially offensive term, put the phone down on her. Tell her that you will do this. If you're in the same room as her, get up and leave. Tell her that that is what you will do. In the middle of a conversation, Granny starts going on about Pikeys, you say: "OK kids, let's go, Granny's going off on one of her racist rants again and we can't be doing with that, can we" and go.

This may be difficult if you are at sunday lunch or something. In which case, it may be advisable to decline all invitations to sunday lunch or christmas lunch or something else you can't easily leave, and tell her that's why: "I'm no longer prepared to put up with you subjecting my children to the racist shit I had to put up with as a child so I'm not coming to Sunday lunch with you because it's not easy to leave if you start going on - I"m only ever going to meet you, if I can get the hell out of there quickly, because your racist ranting disgusts me and is not good enough behaviour around my children".

Would that work in the short term?