to cut contact with my mum because she is racist

[Anon122]

My mum makes a lot of comments about "pikeys" which I find offensive and deeply distasteful. I think these comments are racist, but please don't turn this into an argument about whether or not "pikey" is a racist term. Even if you don't consider it to be racist, the comments are still offensive and disgusting. For example, today I was talking to her on skype, and she said she doesn't feel safe going to the village shop. This is because the pub next door to it attracts people who she is calling pikeys. I told her that I find the term offensive and that it is generally considered to be racist. She said she doesn't care and (quoting here) "they should be burned. Or pikeys should be drowned at birth". I don't believe that my mum would genuinely support genocide, but she doesn't have any qualms about saying these kinds of things semi-publicly and in front of my dc.

Following the comment which I quoted above, I hung up the skype call and I'm now crying. I am pregnant and hormonal atm, so maybe I'm overreacting. But this is a reoccurring issue which my mum and I have argued about since I was about 14 or 15. She grew up in a small village with very closed-minded parents and has always considered these kinds of comments to be normal. I find them deeply offensive. I have tried explaining hundreds of times why I find comments like these and others like them offensive and inappropriate. For another example she refers to the shop in the next village as "the paki shop" because the people who own it are black (and almost certainly not from Pakistan). When I call her on how racist that is she mocks me by calling it "the native American shop" (for no apparent reason) instead. When I try to explain this to her she accuses me of being a snob, she tells me that going to university changed me (I was the first person in my family to go to university) and says she thinks I must have been swapped in the hospital when I was born, because I don't fit in with the rest of the family. My dad is much better than my mum, but he never bothers to call her on her comments, although he has always backed me up when I have. Both of my siblings and many of my mum's friends use similar language, and they think I don't have a sense of humour when I say that I find it offensive.

I have actually threatened to stop my mum from seeing my dc if she makes racist comments in their presence, but she doesn't seem to take it seriously. She brushed these threats off by saying that I have nothing to fear because I'm obviously happy with the way I turned out yet I grew up hearing her racism. She also likes to remind me that the only reason I managed to go to university and become a snob in the first place was because she made it possible for me. (This is not strictly true, my parents didn't give me any emotional or financial support during any of my degrees, but I think they believe they did, and they are generally proud of me).

So, AIBU to cut contact with my mum because her racism upsets and offends me? I know I'm not going to change her but I don't want to keep hearing these kinds of comments and I don't want my dc to ever hear them. But I also don't want to make things awkward for my dad, who I don't want to cut out. And I don't know if it would be better for my dc to not have my mum in their lives, or to have a grandmother who they don't really see that often, who makes the occasional racist comment (which if I'm honest I probably can teach my dc to ignore or explain to them why it's wrong).

Giveitago, sorry I somehow lost my reply to you from the message above. I think you're right about me and my mum being distant from each other, and it is very difficult to try to overcome that when we don't speak very often, and conversations often end in arguments (not necessarily about her saying racist things which my dc might hear, but often in some way related to my dc).

What I am really struggling with is how to go about setting ground rules. This isn't a new problem, it's just that yesterday it finally broke my patience and I'm not prepared t deal with it any more. I think my mum is very quick to interpret things I say and do as condescending, which makes it very difficult to have a constructive conversation. When dc1 was born we talked about how I was reluctant to allow my mum to have a lot of contact with my dc because I think some of her opinions as poisonous. She brushed it off then by saying that I am pleased with how I turned out, and suggesting she thinks I'm smug, and she was a part of what made me me, therefore I shouldn't worry about her impact on my dc. As dc1 was a newborn when this conversation happened, and was therefore unlikely to pick up anything, I rather stupidly just let it drop. When I try to approach the topic now I just get the same response or accused of being a snob or controlling. I have taken to putting down the phone or ending the skype call if / when my mum says things like this, but that means I still have to hear them first, and I'm a bit on edge during every conversation waiting to be upset. I'm just getting to the stage where I can't see a way out. I want her to apologise and promise not to make racist comments to or near me again, and I feel like I need that as a foundation before I can speak to her again. But that's not been very forthcoming so far, and when I've asked for a promise like that before the conversation has been derailed onto me being a snob or something like that. It's like she doesn't realise that I'm being serious when I say it bothers me.

Whatmeworry, I still don't understand why you think I would be unreasonable

I do think YABU, I've told you why, you don't agree with me, fine, end of story.

What I never understand is why people come on AIBU if they don't like people to say YABU?

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies in advance. However, OP it sounds to me like the racism is a symptom of the bigger problem which is your mothers jealousy. She sounds jealous that you went to Uni and had a different life from her. She's trying to wind you up because it's a way to upset you and 'pull you down a peg or two' and make you feel as shitty and insecure as she does. She doesn't sound like a very nice person at all.

there is nothing 'politically correct' about refusing condoning people talking about BURNING a whole group of people because of their cultural group!

or using calling some non-white people 'paki' when their heritage isn't even pakistani!

OP i don't think yabu and while i probably wouldn't cut my mother off for that behaviour i would dramatically limit any time spent with her (and cut any visit off immediately on hearing anything offensive). i would also probably keep her away from my child.

I think you might benefit from a visit to the Stately Homes thread OP, she really does sound like a toxic person.

You shouldn't constantly be on tenterhooks every time you talk to your mother. You just shouldn't. It's really not normal.

I think capricorn has a very valid point that she is trying to bring you down a peg or two. She knows saying shit like that is upsetting and making you feel on edge, hence why she says stuff like that all the time. You are intelligent, have been educated and escaped that kind of narrow minded thinking, and she probably resents that.

OK I admit I didn't read the whole thread. I cannot understand how people have time to read all the threads on mumsnet and lead busy productive lives. I work full-time so find it difficult to keep up. I'm not much younger than your mum, so am maybe thinking about older people that I knew with less than PC attitudes as being in their 80's now.

Maybe you can sit with your mum and enlighten her. If you really don't like her then cut her out and get on with your life. However, life is short and we always hurt the ones we love.

Can I post anonymously on the stately homes thread? I name changed for this because it's possible to recognise me with my usual mn name and I don't want anyone from real life, especially my sister, to know that this is how I'm feeling.

Yes anon, you can, do another name chance if it makes you more comfortable.

Elanor

Yes understood, I rather thought it was the "other matters" which were colouring (no pun inended) the OP's views and exacerbating her dilemma. I agree with you and of course quite accept anyone's right to decide for themselves what is important and what is not in terms of offensive language, behaviour or views.

I fully sympathise with her predicament, I know if my mother had held views with which I fundamentally disagreed then I would agonise over what to do.

The real problem seems to me that many contributors have the view that this is not in fact the case and there are absolute standards as regards other peoples opinions, comments or use of terminology which do not allow for context.

Hence my comments about a work or casual social situation as to opposed family or close friends. The consequences of, for example, upsetting someone at work are far less severe than alienating one's mother.

Indeed, one contributor illustrated this (in a slightly oblique way) by saying that " People don't say this sort of thing at work, where they are required to STFU. "

On the face of it this has little to do with social mores or contex because there are rules governing staff behaviour at work - statutory regulations and also employer's rules - but in fact the reservations we feel in a work situation would always transcend those rules anyway whereas a mother or other family member is far more likely to speak freely.

My granny (now departed) was like this, but not as bad. She would comment on African prisoner of war camps etc. However, whilst we didn't see her as much as the other side of the family we didn't cut contact. However even as children we knew Granny was wrong, it had bo effect on us whatsoever. I distinctly remember sitting on the floor in front of her armchair when she visited once, arguing with her about her pretty outdated and nasty views. As long as we were polite my parents encouraged healthy debate.

She mellowed greatly over the years, and was quite a different person by the time she died.

definitely over reacting, my philosophy is everyone is entitled to an opinion regardless of if it differs from yours

I've put my father-in-law on notice for his constant racist jibes, with full support from DH. He will be banned from seeing DD if he doesn't shut the fuck up

this made me laugh - he is on notice for having views that differ from hers but OK for her to be completely foul mouthed, obscene and fishwifey LOL

I doubt she is like this in front of her children ditzy
So I dont understand the comparison.

Personally I wouldnt call using the word fuck once as 'completely foul mouthed, obscene and fishwifey'

LOL on the other hand....

So you really think that using 'racist jibes' around children constantly is ok because that person just has 'different views'

Its only a bit of a larf innit?

There's 'different views' and then there is the drip, drip, drip of poison into your child's ear. My parents' hold racist/homophobic views but they will not repeat them in my house - in their house I can't tell them what to say but I can/will leave.

IMO there is a big difference b/w racism and, for example, the advantages of football over rugby, or being in or out of the EU.

Oh I wish all these racist idiots would STFU.