to cut contact with my mum because she is racist

[Anon122]

My mum makes a lot of comments about "pikeys" which I find offensive and deeply distasteful. I think these comments are racist, but please don't turn this into an argument about whether or not "pikey" is a racist term. Even if you don't consider it to be racist, the comments are still offensive and disgusting. For example, today I was talking to her on skype, and she said she doesn't feel safe going to the village shop. This is because the pub next door to it attracts people who she is calling pikeys. I told her that I find the term offensive and that it is generally considered to be racist. She said she doesn't care and (quoting here) "they should be burned. Or pikeys should be drowned at birth". I don't believe that my mum would genuinely support genocide, but she doesn't have any qualms about saying these kinds of things semi-publicly and in front of my dc.

Following the comment which I quoted above, I hung up the skype call and I'm now crying. I am pregnant and hormonal atm, so maybe I'm overreacting. But this is a reoccurring issue which my mum and I have argued about since I was about 14 or 15. She grew up in a small village with very closed-minded parents and has always considered these kinds of comments to be normal. I find them deeply offensive. I have tried explaining hundreds of times why I find comments like these and others like them offensive and inappropriate. For another example she refers to the shop in the next village as "the paki shop" because the people who own it are black (and almost certainly not from Pakistan). When I call her on how racist that is she mocks me by calling it "the native American shop" (for no apparent reason) instead. When I try to explain this to her she accuses me of being a snob, she tells me that going to university changed me (I was the first person in my family to go to university) and says she thinks I must have been swapped in the hospital when I was born, because I don't fit in with the rest of the family. My dad is much better than my mum, but he never bothers to call her on her comments, although he has always backed me up when I have. Both of my siblings and many of my mum's friends use similar language, and they think I don't have a sense of humour when I say that I find it offensive.

I have actually threatened to stop my mum from seeing my dc if she makes racist comments in their presence, but she doesn't seem to take it seriously. She brushed these threats off by saying that I have nothing to fear because I'm obviously happy with the way I turned out yet I grew up hearing her racism. She also likes to remind me that the only reason I managed to go to university and become a snob in the first place was because she made it possible for me. (This is not strictly true, my parents didn't give me any emotional or financial support during any of my degrees, but I think they believe they did, and they are generally proud of me).

So, AIBU to cut contact with my mum because her racism upsets and offends me? I know I'm not going to change her but I don't want to keep hearing these kinds of comments and I don't want my dc to ever hear them. But I also don't want to make things awkward for my dad, who I don't want to cut out. And I don't know if it would be better for my dc to not have my mum in their lives, or to have a grandmother who they don't really see that often, who makes the occasional racist comment (which if I'm honest I probably can teach my dc to ignore or explain to them why it's wrong).

Anon my mum is the same, she used to live in London where there is a high percentage of immigrants and non-whites, she constantly refers to the pakis (though interestingly never uses derogatory terms for other races) and goes on and on about the schools with no white faces in the playground. She says it's terrifying that is our country's next generation.

When DD was little I pulled mum up on it several times, I always got the rolled-eyes look and "you wait until (my DD) can't get a job because the pakis have got them all". We eventually agreed to disagree but I made her stop saying it in front of DD; she slipped up occasionally but I had several chats with DD when she was small, explaining that her nanny didn't like people with skin that wasn't white and that some people are just like that. DD thought nanny was very silly.

DD is a teenager now, when mum spouts off DD just shakes her head and ignores it, later she will sigh about how racist nanny is.

I could have refused to let mum see DD, but it wouldn't have achieved anything except upsetting mum and causing a huge rift - and depriving DD of her GP's. On a positive note, it did mean I had to address the racism issue a lot earlier with DD than I might have otherwise, and I think she has grown up with a very healthy attitude now.

It's incredibly ageist to accept that racism in old people is OK. Martin Luther King died in 1968 FGS, not 1998. Tony Benn is in his 80's, he's always been an anti racist.

Anyway this appalling woman isn't old, she's only in her fifties. Her language has been considered detestable by civilised people, for at least 40 years.

used to live in an area of london

My mum is a bit of a twat. When she says twatty things I cut in and say 'Mum I really don't want to hear that' or 'Sorry, do you mind if you have that conversation with someone else?'.
She harrumphs and complains but she gets the message.
Do the same.
Even say 'Mum that's offensive to me, can we change the subject please'.
You are in charge, you can manage this without cutting her out - unless there is a lot of other toxic behaviour and you can't cope with her in your life...?

My granny who is dead now was terribly racist, but it rarely came up in conversation. I adored her though and as a child spent many happy hours playing cards with her and chatting with her, and she adored me. Unfortunately those we love and are related to are not always perfect. I always felt, though, that if I had had children with someone from a different race/ethnicity, she would have accepted them completely, I never got to find out. I wouldn't have missed that relationship for the world, even with her flaws.

I have now calmed down enough to realise that I'm probably being a bit over dramatic but I still feel stuck. I'm not prepared for her to make racist comments around my dc, that is a non-negotiable for me. My dc are growing up in the 21st century and they should not be hearing racism first hand. I fully intend to teach them about prejudice, but I want to teach them that it is something which is wrong and outdated and not tolerated in society, and that is undermined if they hear my mum's casual racism, even if we leave every time she says something. I don't think she is willing or able to not make racist remarks though. How can I explain to her that she simply must not make those comments? When I try she derails the conversation onto criticising me for being idealistic and not knowing how the world really is.

Tell your mum it isnt 'snob', its 'Politically correct drone'.

Shes afraid to walk past the local pub FFS. In her own community. By all means explain that her comments dont meet current acceptable standards, but it wasnt long ago that her views were the norm. Write off the last generations all you want, but they have witnessed this country 'change' quite radically. And not always for the best.

My mother makes similar comments, but I have always talked to my kids afterwards and explained its not nice, they know its wrong from what they learn in school and recognise that she is old and holds old fashioned views. I have challenged my mum about it, and she is sorry afterwards, but I do think the benefits my kids get from their relationship with her far outweighs the risk of them learning racist views from her. My kids are now more politically correct than me.

My Gran thinks that black people sitting on the bus are rude and inappropriate.

What the fucking hell? so many fucked up people in this world.

Lassy, are you accusing me of being a politically correct drone because I take offence to racist terms? I don't think there is anything wrong with being politically correct; I'd rather change my vocabulary a bit rather than offend or exclude people. However I do resent being called a drone. There is nothing independent or free-thinking in causing offence and tension which can be avoided by something as simple as not making racist remarks. Being prejudice (or too thoughtless or lazy to phrase things in a non-prejudice way) is nothing to be proud of.

Not that it's relevant, but I don't think there is any good reason for her to be afraid to walk past the pub. There have never been any incidents there that I have heard of, and it's the kind of place where gossip gets around fairly quickly. There isn't even any litter laying around there and people leave their bikes unlocked propped up against the wall when they nip into the shop. The reason she feels unsafe is because she has convinced herself she is by spending time with other people who read news which tells them that the country is ruined and everyone is out to get them.

OP, I am glad to see that you have calmed down and are not now contemplating a split with your mum; that would have been awful if the only problem was her making comments which are offensive to you.

As so many have said on here, no parent is perfect (and no son / daughter either) so expecting your mum to change her views is probably asking a bit much.

The best you can hope for is that she keeps quiet about "certain topics".

You might be surprised at how quickly she cottons on to the fact that you will simply leave whenever she comes out with this crap.

People don't say this sort of thing at work, where they are required to STFU. They're perfectly capable of not coming out with stuff around their family and friends too and will do if the consequences are inconvenient enough, as they are in the workplace.

She sounds pretty vile. Some older people don't realise that certain words are totally unacceptable nowadays, but spitting venom about 'pikeys being drowned at birth' doesn't fall into 'batty old dear' territory - it's disgusting and inexcusable.

Only you know whether cutting all contact is appropriate or realistic. If you do keep seeing her I would keep on calling her on her nasty mouth. You have every right to pull her up on it and are setting an example to your children by challenging this sort of attitude openly, every time it happens.

Good luck.

Oh, and lassylass is talking utter bollocks. Calling people 'pikeys' and 'pakis' was never 'the norm' in my family. We have more class and bloody human decency than that!

Yes it wasn't mainstream to suggest that people of other groups should be drowned at birth.

Except among nazis.

Normal people have never had those views, even if they had unthinking knee-jerk xenophobic responses. There's a massive chasm between the odd offensive, unthinking phrase and the kind of vile racist hate-speak that the OP's mother goes in for.

we have to sometimes accept people for what they are and once we do that it is easier to deal with and accept they are not going to change

once your child or children are old enough you have to rell her that her views are not to be aired around them and also when she makes any racist comments just tell her that is horrible and move on not that she is wrong, you know she is but you will not change her

sounds like she does do it to get a reaction

Is this a windup? Two pikey threads in a week?

I know it's horrible but I don't think it will make them racist. My gran comes out with comments like this all the time. Once she took me swimming when I was little and told me 'that black family are staying in the shallow end because their bones are too heavy to swim properly' (they were playing in the wave bit) but my mum just explained that it is just a generation thing and we know better now. I certainly never repeated her.

I feel very uncomfortable about telling children that this is a generational thing.

It isn't. It's very ageist and insulting to older people, to imply that they're all a bunch of rabid racists. I know people in their fifties, sixties and seventies who have always been anti-racist and have never held the views that people seem to think everyone over 50 holds. I don't really think children should be fed ageist stereotypes anymore than racist ones.

YAB a tad U methinks. A non PC granny is mandatory for all kids of every generation :o

Btw your kids will use whatever words fit their own milieu and nothing their Grandmother (or you) say will affect them, you will be horrified by the words they use, especially if something as mild as "pikey" has you reaching for the cutoff switch.

I know people in their 90s who have never been racist - indeed, rather thought that's what they were fighting a war against between '39 and '45.

However, I wouldn't cut off your Mother over this. Try the idea of leaving the room/house whenever she says something that crosses the line.

I never bothered telling DS that racism is a "generational" thing because that is patently untrue as far as my own family is concerned. I just used to explain to him (in front of the perpetrator) that the person (FIL) who had just spouted the offensive remarks couldn't help themselves because they were THICK.

Yup, I thoroughly recommend this approach. When Granny comes out with racist crap, turn to the kids and say.. "Poor Granny, she doesn't like XXX people because she is rather stupid. It's not her fault, but WE know it's silly, don't we?"
Slightly contemptuous pity actually does work better than confrontation.

Whatmeworry, no it's not a wind up. I've been on mn for years and name changed for this. It's not so much the word pikey which makes me want to cut my mum out (although I do think it's not an acceptable word) it's the comments supporting drowning newborns or burning people that I find disgusting and that I don't want my dc to hear.

Lapsedpacifist, I like your idea. Does it work well? What does he normally say or do when you say that? How many times has it happened? I think it might just set my mum off on a different rant about how I'm a snob and must have been mixed up in the hospital when I was born. I'm not especially keen on my dc hearing that either but I know I'm being pfb now. I just don't want my dc to think that being anti-racism is just an option or just my opinion; I want it to the the only option which even occurs to them. I think that's made more difficult when they hear my mum, especially if I then have to engage with her opinions in front of them. I want her to apologise for making disgusting remarks and promise never to say them again when I, or my dc, might hear them, but I've been wanting that for a very long time and it hasn't happened yet.

I cut contact with my brother because he is racists. I don't want racist people in my life.

Have the courage of your convictions and cut contact.

Were there other reasons? I hope so because if not that is an extreme reaction.