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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To stop looking after my friends children even though I know it will cause her huge problems

127 replies

pingu2209 · 21/11/2011 13:02

I have 3 children aged 8, 6 and 4. My friend's children are 8 and 2. They are not naughty rude or cheeky but they come from a house with different rules to my own.

My friend drops off her children at 7.30am and I walk the older one to school and younger one to nursery after school drop off. I have to take my 3 to school anyway so when I made the offer I didn't think it would be much bother for me.

My friend is very grateful and I am pleased to help her get back into work as she was on benefits before. However, her work starts at 8am and the breakfast club/nursery starts at 8am too - so she can't drop off and get to work on time. This is why I am looking after her children for her. I do it for free, I am her friend and don't want any money.

Except I am finding it really hard with 5 children in the morning. That hour between 7.30 and 8.30, when we leave the house, is manic. I feed all 5 children toast, and have to ensure they leave the house on time.

The thing that makes it hard is two fold. Firstly the 2 year old needs help getting his shoes and coat on and I have to watch him to check he is okay. He regularly cries if he has an extremely minor knock etc. Of course after 3 children of my own I should have realised this, except I clearly have a short memory! I find it really hard when I am so busy getting everything else done, to have to ensure he is okay. This sounds terrible as I read it back to myself, how intollerant am I?!

Secondly, they have very different rules in their house and it is driving me made having to tell them the house rules over and over again. "We sit our bottoms on the chair at the table, please don't kneel on the chair". "Please don't sit on the arm of the sofa... jump on the sofa..." "Please stand up and wait patiently rather than lie on the floor by the front door when we are all trying to put our shoes on..." "Please don't go on the grass because it is really muddy..." "No you can't put the Wii on, just watch the TV quietly". "No you can't go upstairs, please just sit quietly." "No we can't do arts and crafts etc." I realise I sound really controlling, but it isn't a play date, it is an hour before school where I don't want my house trashed everyday. I go straight on to work myself, so I don't want to come home from work each day to pens and paper or toys everywhere.

Even eating toast is becoming a pain as neither child will eat crusts but that is something I would not entertain with my own children as they grew up because it is just fussy (in my opinion). My children want to follow the other 2 and are trying to leave the crust etc.

It doesn't help that she is turning up earlier and earlier. Initially it was only a few minutes before 7.30 but today it was just before 7.20. I know it is only 10 mins but I had only just got up and brushed my teeth, those extra 10 mins would have meant I would be dressed at least.

I am just finding it tough and would rather not do it. However, my friend will most likely have to give up her job if she can't find a replacement. She asked to start at 8.30 so she could walk them to the breakfast club/nursery but they said no.

Before I offered to help, she tried for weeks to get someone (teenager - anyone) who would pick her children up at 7.45 and then walk her children to the breakfast club/nursery for 8. There was nobody.

OP posts:
Casserole · 21/11/2011 20:28

Why are you breakfasting them???

If you want a middle option (and I'm not saying you should) - How about she asks work to let her start at 8:15 if not every day, then 2 or 3 days a week. Then she gets a bike and drops the kids off at 8 and then cycles to work on those days.

On the other 2 or 3 days, if you were willing to do it, she could drop the kids off at yours BREAKFASTED AND READY at 7:45 and then cycle to work for 8. They sit and watch telly with their coats etc on for half an hour and then you go.

pingu2209 · 21/11/2011 22:13

Sorry - I have been out. I've read all your messages.

I don't feel resentful towards my friend, I feel sad that I seem to be struggling so much with them all. I do want to help her but I think 5 days a week is too much for me to cope with. I made the offer, she didn't ask, I clearly didn't think it through and I am dissapointed with myself for not doing so as it could really drop my friend in it.

The children are not naughty as such, and although I typed earlier that I ask them to not sit on the arm of the sofa etc, believe me, I say 'oi get off' and am very firm with them. I made the 2 year old boy cry yesterday because I refused to let him sit on a chair my 4 year old normally has, I literally shouted at him and physically picked him up and put him in the chair I wanted him to sit on. The 8 year old does as she is told 90% of the time but as another post said, a little boy of nearly 3 is going to be challenging and won't just sit still watching the TV for an hour.

I feed my children breakfast at 8 and it is very hard to say no to food to 2 other children when 3 others are eating. I can't do it, I just can't. But that is why I am doing toast in the morning as it is the cheapest and easiest and least messy option! I also don't want them to feel like they are 'second class' somehow in my house. I think my friend gives her children breakfast before they come here anyway - however, she is more a handful of jaffa cakes for breakfast mum - whereas I am more of a boiled egg and soldiers kind of mum (read into that how you will).

My friend has a physically demanding job. She walks 10 mins from her house to my house to drop them off at (ahem) 7.30am. Then walks 20 mins from my house to work to start at 8am. Works a 6 hour shift. Then walks the 1 1/2 miles to the nursery to pick up her son. Then walks a mile from nursery to school to pick up her daughter. Then walks the 10 mins back to her house after school. She is exhausted, but she is a grafter.

A bike would make it quicker, but because she has to pick her son and then daughter up at the other end of the day, she can't get her children on the bike - unless it was a bicycle made for 3!

She works so hard and wants to get herself out of the benefit system so she can have a career. She is 28, by the time she is 40 she could have a good career and decent wage. Her daughter's father is nowhere to be seen. Her son's father is in and out and lives nowhere near us - totally out of county, sometimes out of the country as he is African and comes and goes.

I have had the whole childcare issue myself. With 3 children, childcare is a bloody nightmare. There is only 1 option in our rural village and they do everything - nursery, breakfast club, after school club, holiday club etc. all in the same building. There are no childminders at all. And as she lives and works in the village she can't use alternative childcare nearer work - as her work is in the village.

I know for holidays my friend is playing it by ear. She knows I won't have them as I only look after her 2 because I am taking my children to school anyway. I'm not too worried about her asking me - I am sure she won't.

As far as I see it, she can ask the nursery to open half an hour earlier - which is highly unlikely. I know them well and there is no chance of that happening.

Or she can ask to shift her hours half an hour so she starts half an hour later and works half an hour later. However, I know that before she started in September she asked for this and they flatly refused. Basically the care home employs a huge number of mums from the village and everyone wants to work 8.30 till 2.30 so they can drop off in the school playground and ask other mums just to watch their children for those 15 mins, yet still pick their children up after school. They don't want to offer it to one mum and set a precedent, so they have refused everyone those hours.

Before I offered to help, she had asked all the teenagers in her street and a few surrounding streets, if they would walk her children to the breakfast club/nursery (about a mile) and she was prepared to pay them £20 a week for doing so. However, she had no takers at all.

The reason for no takers is that whilst the breakfast club/nursery building is opposite the secondary school, the teenager would need to get to my friend's house for 7.40am (when she would leave for work). No teenager wants to commit to 5 days a week, and broken down into £4/day it doesn't seem worth it to them for quite a lot of responsibility and a bloody early start. But she can't afford any more because she is on minimum wage. She can't even claim her 70% back because it would be 'unofficial' childcare.

The nursery building is a good 20 minute walk from my friend's house too - but in the total opposite direction to her work!

I am going to plod on with it for the next months - till end of term, then if it is still a nightmare I will have to tell her it is too much for me and she needs to find another mum or two who is willing to take them so that I don't have to do every day. There are loads of other mums doing the school run in her street/surrounding streets, so she just needs to ask. If they are only asked to do 1 day a week, that would seem much more of a reasonable request and mums are more likely to agree to it. Then it would only be 3 days a week for me.

OP posts:
eminencegrise · 21/11/2011 22:21

FGS, tell her she can't drop them off until 7.30 at least!

pingu2209 · 21/11/2011 22:29

Well, when she turned up at 7.18 this morning, I made a 'joking' (but serious) comment about it being very early and I had only been up 5 mins. She said that her clocks must be wrong at her house as she thought she had left at 7.20. At least I have said something. Hopefully that will be enough. If it happens again then I will be more direct.

OP posts:
ChippingInNeedsSleep · 21/11/2011 22:51

pingu - you're so sweet :) I hope she appreciates you. I guess all you can do is keep being very firm with them all and telling them things such as 'Don't ask to play upstairs on a school morning - it is not happening' and not saying 'Not this morning' or whatever and hopefully before long they'll all calm down a bit and not keep on about playing upstairs, painting & drawing and stuff like that. It will soon become routine and less exciting :)

If things are a bit tight can you ask your friend is she can give you a few quid a week towards breakfast stuff?

springydaffs · 21/11/2011 22:51

Well done for offering to help her. I'm sorry it's becoming too much - 5 days per week is a lot - but to go from all to nothing is too severe imo. It sounds like the situation needs tinkering with a bit eg you have to be quite rigid about when she brings the kids over. tbh I think giving carries a price - that's how it goes -and a slightly messy house when you come home from work is maybe one 'cost' if you like. Perhaps you have to work out where you are prepared to carry that 'cost' (in the morning or after work?). She may not run such a regimented house but there we go, we're all different.

So, tinker with it a bit, be upfront with her that it is getting too draining and work out what bits you can shave off to make it more workable - have a review in, say, 2 months to see if the changes have helped? That way, if the arrangement does eventually collapse, you will both know you tried all options. She doesn't sound like she's taking the piss at all, is probably extremely grateful to you for helping her out. Two women helped me out (at differnt times) quite significantly when my kids were little and I am eternally grateful to them to this day. I'll never forget them.

It may be that getting a bike is one expense too far for her, unfortunately, but a bike would definitely help with timings if she can get hold of one. Another idea is that you could ask the local church if there's anything they can do to help? She is doing her best, refuses to lounge around on benefits and is to be applauded for that, as you say.

It may be that ultimately a move is something she'll have to face. I know that's huge but rural living may not be sustainable with the pressures she faces as a single parent. It's not the end of the world, even though it is difficult to face if she is settled where she is, but living closer to a town with all the relevant amenities may be her best option.

springydaffs · 21/11/2011 22:54

poor use of the word 'regimented' - didn't mean anything by it - apologies!

RandomMess · 21/11/2011 23:00

She could get a bike with kiddy bike seat and her dd a scooter. I cycle and my girls scooter - the youngest scootered whilst I walked from just age 3 and then when I cycled from age 4.

Obviously biking a bike etc isn't cheap!

My only other thought is that you go to her house so it's not your house getting trashed! Presumably the 3 year old will calm down as he gets older and more used to regime.

ssd · 21/11/2011 23:01

op, you're being really nice but it just isnt working for you and your kids

you'll just have to tell your friend straight, its up to her to sort out her working life, you cant do it for her, stop trying

RandomMess · 21/11/2011 23:02

Hmm would work let her start later 2 or 3 days per week...

eminencegrise · 21/11/2011 23:22

In rural areas, cycling might not be an option.

MrsMuddyPuddles · 21/11/2011 23:24

Glad to hear it's getting better-- 2 is a HARD age!

I still think you should tell her that you're struggling so it's not a surprise at the end of the term. She might be able to help you find a way to keep going with this situation.

Of course, if she could get the required CRBS check for care-home work, she could ALSO become the village childminder instead of working with adults... sounds like there's a gap in the market ;-) (and there may well be grants for starting a business).

Good luck to you both.

MrsMuddyPuddles · 21/11/2011 23:26

eminencegrise, the OP described the milage that the friend is currently walking; cycling would be quicker and easier than walking. The friend COULD get a trailer for the two, but they tend to be expensive and rarely show up on Freegle/gumtree. damnit

springydaffs · 21/11/2011 23:27

wow, what a fabulous idea Mrs! Smile

FannyBazaar · 21/11/2011 23:46

If and when you give it up or ask to do less days, perhaps she could advertise on any local notice boards. I have a childless older friend who helps me out with childcare. If she's doing the morning (haven't done for a while), she comes to me to pick up DS (only the one child) and takes him to hers then on to nursery/breakfast club/school. She volunteered when she wasn't working to help me out once a week or whenever I needed an earlier start because she wanted motivation to get up earlier and get some exercise. If it doesn't suit the teenagers, there may be some retired folk who could help.

The kids may get easier once they learn your rules. If needs be, put a sign up with house rules and timings.

eminencegrise · 21/11/2011 23:49

Well, living in a rural area, it doesn't matter what the milage is, it's entirely possible that cycling isn't a possibility. Personally, I'd rather walk than fucking cycle around with two little kids.

Inertia · 22/11/2011 00:18

I think you're an amazing friend, but you do need to set a few ground rules. I bet that, given the choice between dropping the children at 7.40 and ditching the arrangement completely, your friend would co-operate with the 7.40 drop-off.

If it were me I'd try the following:

  • ask friend to ask for a later start at least a couple of mornings per week so you only have the children 3 days
  • 7.40 am drop off
-her children have breakfast before they come to you (and seriously, she does need to take responsibility for feeding her children even if she does rely on you for child care) -Your children have breakfast at 7.20, then get washed and dressed
  • TV or books in front room only- no crafts, no bedrooms
  • some kind of sticker or reward system for the children who are ready on time with no nagging? Stickers for the 2yo when he behaves in a co-operative manner? I know it's time-consuming but might work out quicker in the long run.
  • If the nursery opens at 8 am, why not drop the 2yo there on the way to school so they are in your house for less time? I know it means getting out earlier, but it sounds as though reducing the time for which everyone is in the house would make it less stressful for you.
omaoma · 22/11/2011 00:38

seriously, i think she's in the wrong career. could she not become the childminder your village lacks????

surely she could earn as much with a full roster as she does in the care home, no problems with what to do with her own kids then. my old CM had 3 kids, cared for 2 more during the day when the eldest was in school, plus had short-term carees she looked after just in the morning/after school. that's £100+ a day (altho admittedly that's city rates) with lots of elements presumably tax deductable.

HexagonalQueenOfTheSummer · 22/11/2011 08:29

I think those that have suggested she goes into childminding have a very good idea. There aren't many childminders in our village and the ones that we do have, that collect from our village school, are absolutely stacked out with mindees and with a big waiting list too.

I have been looking into becoming a childminder (not going ahead though as I can't attend all the training dates) and the expenses are very minimal. In our area the training is free. CRB check is free. Lots of equipment she would probably have anyway with her having a 2 year old. She could probably make a lot more money than she currently does working 25 hours per week in a care home.

OhTheConfusion · 22/11/2011 09:33

Just wondering when she showed up today? hope things are a little better.

MarthasHarbour · 22/11/2011 09:44

i too thought she should become a childminder but i think OFSTED would take issue with her feeding the kids jaffa cakes Hmm

shame as it is a bloody good idea!

eminencegrise · 22/11/2011 09:48

If she's renting privately, childminding is probably out as most tenancies won't allow you to use the home as a business.

Even some HA/council tenants cannot (we are HA tenants and can't use the home as a place of business).

bringbacksideburns · 22/11/2011 10:03

Just talk to her! Tell her you are finding it a struggle. Be honest.

I would say you don't mind maybe doing it three mornings a week but could she get help from family/friends etc for the other mornings?
There may be childminders who have kids at the same school or other mums she is friendly with who could help.
Turning up earlier and earlier is taking the piss a bit!! Also the fact that she was prepared to spend £20 a week for a 'teenager' to do it makes me think she is aware you are a nice soft hearted person and may ask more of you in the future. I know you aren't interested in the money but this is a big comittment every day.

FootprintsOnTheMoon · 22/11/2011 10:29

Has she thought about asking retired people if they'd do it?

My friend hired a 'surrogate granny' figure to get here DS from school. The old lady was a bit lonely and keen to have a bit of extra cash and company. The 2 year old is going to remain a problem through....

pingu2209 · 22/11/2011 20:29

Hello everyone. Well my friend turned up today at 7.30 on the dot. I think she may well have got the message after my exhasperation at yesterday's early start.

Today I took the 2 year old to nursery at 8.20 before dropping the older children at school. This was easier as I had a shorter time in my house and it meant that I could get to work straight from school drop off - rather than spend an additional 20 mins going to nursery from school.

She lives in a council house so I am not sure if she would be allowed to run a business from home. She specifically wants to look after older and disabled people and hopes that she can take her exams whilst working at the care home so that eventually she can work for the local councils social team for care in the community type roles.

OP posts: