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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be dreadfully sad that in the 21st century child abuse seems to be part of the culture in a so-called modern, progressive and enlightened country like the USA

353 replies

Perriwinkle · 20/11/2011 22:39

I've been watching a lot of American baby programmes on satellite TV lately and have been horrified and saddened to see how many parents, who appear to be loving, caring, very protective parents who are determined to everything right by their children, have their sons circumcised in hospital just before they bring them home.

These parents then get stressed and worried when these babies are what they describe as "fussy" (which I've gathered seems to mean a collection of things such as not feeding/sleeping/settling well and crying a lot). Clearly these poor babies are in huge discomfort, due to the barbaric and hugely invasive and unnecessary procedure that's been carried out on them.

When the parents are talking to camera about their early experiences of parenthood, how it has made them feel and what their hopes are for the future, they are all full of wanting to do the best for their child, to love, cherish and protect them and about being the best parents they possibly can for their child. This seems to be so at odds with giving consent for that child to have its genitals mutilated just a day or two earlier.

One woman I saw was talking about how she was in pieces when her son had to "get his first shots" as she called it (injections I assume?) yet she said nothing about his circumcision. I know that the vast majority have it done because when you see them changing nappies you know they have had it done because they have big wadge of gauze there to protect the wound site and you often hear them saying they have to be careful due to the circumcision. If only these parents could be educated to see that it is not in their child's best interests to have him circumcised, rather than thinking it is.

I really can't believe that this practice is still carried out as routinely and widely as it is in the USA even though there is no medical justification for it and no sound evidence to justify that it is in any way beneficial or more hygenic than leaving the baby intact.

What a shame that in many cases such clearly educated and rational people, who do not appear to have any religious imperative to carry out this barbaric practice are still doing this to their children in their droves. It means that millions of children are being subjected to this abusive practice on a daily basis in the USA.

Surely with proper education and information this could be turned around and this vile practive wiped out? I know having it done due to a religious imperative is a whole different argument but surely if non Jewish and Islamic people were properly informed and enlightened on the subject surely the incidence of this completely unneccessary abusive practice could be drastically reduced and in time eschewed by the overwhelming majority of parents?

I understand that routine non ritual circumcision was once a feature of many cultures but that it has successfully died out due to education and enlightenment. Wouldn't it be lovely to think the same could happen in the USA?

OP posts:
WorraLiberty · 20/11/2011 22:42

I personally don't believe having it done due to a religious imperative is a whole different argument.

Hacking bits off of babies is wrong for any reason, other than medical grounds imo.

EricNorthmansMistress · 20/11/2011 22:44

YABU
Circumcision does not fit the definition of child abuse. If it did, it would be illegal.

StrandedUnderTheMisltoe · 20/11/2011 22:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Memoo · 20/11/2011 22:49

No medical justification for it?

My ds couldnt wee properly!

There was no other option!

Memoo · 20/11/2011 22:50

And how dare you call me acting in the best interest of my son abuse!

Perriwinkle · 20/11/2011 22:53

Would you like to explain what part of lopping a child's genitals off without justification or the child's consent does not constitute child abuse? The fact that it is not illegal is not the issue here because it most certainly should be illegal. You can't even dock dogs' tails in this country FFS but babies are routinely abused by circumcision and the justification for it? Religion.

I wholeheartedly agree that it is not a different argument when you use religion as an excuse. That's an argument for another thread though. I am trying to focus on this vile practice being perpetrated on millions of babies on a daily basis in the USA by so called educated, enlightened, rational prople.

OP posts:
SirBoobAlot · 20/11/2011 22:54

YADNBU. It makes me feel physically sick. Another baby boy died just last week, suffered cardiac arrest during the procedure :'(

helpmabob · 20/11/2011 22:54

YABU and woefully ill informed not to mention alarmist. It is far too late at night to pay your post any more attention than that

WorraLiberty · 20/11/2011 22:55

Memoo she's saying routine circumsicon has no medical justification

If a child can't pee properly, then one would assume it's justifiable to have the procedure done.

Perriwinkle · 20/11/2011 22:55

Read the thread properly before you start ranting Memoo. There was clearly a medical justification for you getting your son done if he couldn't urinate properly. FFS why do people jump in without reading things properly first?

I'm only referring to routine non ritual circumcision that's carried out in hospitals in the USA here. The sort that's done without any problem presenting itself.

OP posts:
Memoo · 20/11/2011 22:56

So youre saying that my ds getting an infection every month for 2 years isnt justification??

Perriwinkle · 20/11/2011 22:58

The irony is helpmabo you are woefully ill informed if you think that widespread routine non ritual circumcision of infants is acceptable in the 21st century in a so called first world, modern, progressive, enlightened country like the USA.

Yes, it's late so go to bed and bury your head in the sand. With your views the thread won't suffer any from your lack of further contribution.

OP posts:
Memoo · 20/11/2011 22:59

Xposts

Im not ranting. Im answering your post.

EricNorthmansMistress · 20/11/2011 22:59

Chill memoo
They aren't talking about medically necessary procedures

ApocalypseCheeseToastie · 20/11/2011 23:00

YANBU, it's abuse.

Just because it's legal doesn't make it any less painful. It's legal for me to hack off my own big toe but I wouldn't do it because I choose not to and it'd bloody hurt ! Babies don't have the luxury of being able to make that choice.

southeastastra · 20/11/2011 23:01

i find it weird too op, even for religious purposes, totally nuts imo

Perriwinkle · 20/11/2011 23:02

Memoo are you being deliberately obtuse or have you just had one too many to drink?

I said that you clearly had a medical justification for getting your son circumcised if he had a problem that had been diagnosed by a physician. That means this thread IS NOT AIMED AT YOU.

It is aimed at people who have done this to their sons within the first few days of their lives when their children have no known problems.

Hope that's clear enough for you.

OP posts:
IneedAbetterNickname · 20/11/2011 23:02

YANBU! I think it's a horrible procedure!

Pendeen · 20/11/2011 23:02

Medically justified readons - YABU
Religious fairy tale reasons - YANBU

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 20/11/2011 23:03

Memoo

The op is not referring to cases like your son where the circumcision is for medical reasons.

WorraLiberty · 20/11/2011 23:04

I wonder if those who get their sons routinely done, would also want their daughter's genitals mutilated?

If not, why not?

Memoo · 20/11/2011 23:05

I SAID X POSTS!

No need to be so bloody rude and ageessive!

Perriwinkle · 20/11/2011 23:06

Right, let's get this straight because people are already totally missing the point.

I am not aiming any of this at people who have had their children circumcised on medical advice TO CORRECT A PROBLEM

Right, hope that's clear. Can we start again now please...?

OP posts:
Perriwinkle · 20/11/2011 23:07

I would have had no need to if you'd read my post properly first without jumping in ranting.

OP posts:
snailoon · 20/11/2011 23:07

In some places it is legal to mutilate girls, or stone people to death. Is anyone saying these things aren't abusive?