To be livid with independent pre-prep school for excluding my 3 year old DS1

[mumoftwolilboys]

...for wetting his pants?

It's the whole way it's been done. We had no warning that he was going to be excluded and suddenly out of the blue, a phone call came one evening just after half term stating that he's had a few accidents that week and therefore he will not be allowed in the next day. No procedures followed. I was suddenly out of childcare and had to take emergency time off work.

I know the school policy states that he cannot be in nappies, but he isn't in nappies. DS1 has been potty training since 19 months and went through terrible regression after the birth of DS2 9 months ago, who had very bad feeding problems till he was nearly 6 months so we weren't able to give DS1 all the attention that a toddler craved. We TOLD the school about his regresion (in 3 separate documents and discussions), but as DS1 was starting to do so well and was dry with us all the time, and not doing badly at nursery, we did not even worry about this issue. Unfortunately, DS1 had a very bad start upon starting pre-reception in Sept, and was immediately stigmatised as the one with potty training problem. This didn't help as the negative attention given to him just flared the problem. The school did not do anything positive to help, apart from the token gestures and pretense in trying to get DS1 to not have accidents (mostly involving pressure against us as parents and making us pass the pressure to DS1). What makes me even more livid is the fact that before the 2 week half term we have just had, DS1 was actually doing very well and only had couple of wet accidents per week. He hardly ever has accidents with us (apart from tiny patches) because we never ever pressure him or remind him to go to the toilet when with us. DS1 normally marches himself into the toilet at home and does it all himself.

We have been very forceful in writing letter, getting policy documents, meeting up (all of which WE had to take initiative, not the school), and finally got DS1 back into school today with the condition that he would need to be withdrawn by next Wednesday if he had more than 1 accident in a week. I was allowed to come in for a couple of hours towards the end of the day(though the manager had thoroughly fought against that) to observe why DS1 keeps wetting his pants in school. I spoke to the manager and deputy manager, asking how they do certain things and why, and giving feedback on what I thought they did that wasn't working. I smiled and made light hearted comments, staying professional all throughout. When I got home, I was shocked to hear a voice message left on our phone from the headteacher stating that I was rude to the manager and deputy manager, including criticising them and resulted in one being in tears (WTF?!). I do not have a clue what they are talking about, apart from the fact that it's probably a means for them to say that I can no longer go in to observe my DS1. They once again said that it's best if DS1 was withdrawn from school. Hope it's not cynical of me to feel the only crime we have actually committed against the school is not being the rich parent that they want us to be. But why admit us in the first place?!

I have called OFSTED, ISI, LEA. They have all said that the school can do whatever they like as they do not report to any of them. I have gone through in detail with each of them, challenging DDA law and framework but apparently they are not breaking any rules. Also, they can choose to follow EYFS but they don't have to because it is a private school and toileting is a very wishy washy area. Department of Education has agreed to look at my letter if I complain to them, but why do I have this sinking feeling that nothing will come of it?

Our poor DS1 has been traumatised since the phone conversation, which came during the DC's dinner time. It seems like they are making it a habit to call us during the DC's dinner time, completely disrupting our lives.

Regretting choosing a private pre-prep to begin with, one that claimed to be inclusive. We thought it was going to save us a little money compared to nursery but oh boy, now it's costing us thousands more. Just an indication of how much we've lost, the smalles cost we will be losing is in the uniform that we've spent over £400 and he has only been wearing them for 7 weeks!!

Am I allowed to name the school in this thread? Am I even posting in the right section? Please let me know if I'm not.

I will give you an F for reading comprehension, Pootle.

"They can't accept that their child's best is not good enough and try to blame the school rather than their own genes/parenting. "

Just to pick up a point above..

To equate 'ready for school / pre-school (at 3, this is pre-school)' with 'being toliet trained' is taking an extremely limited view of child development!

What should be taken as 'pre-school / school readiness'? An avid intellectual curiousity and drive to learn (my DS could read fluently and add and subtract 3 digit numbers before he was fully toilet reliable as to poo, which happened just before he started school)? Or the workings of their bladder and bowels???

DS had toddler diorrhea (daily uncontrollable loose poo) for the 18 months leading up to his start at pre-school (one reason for his late mastery of bowel control mentioned above). I took him to the doctor, saying that it was a problem because he would be unable to start pre-school with his peers at 2.5 because he was required to be fully toilet trained. The paediatrician was both shocked and incredulous that such a minor part of child development could be held out as a single checkpoint of 'readiness' for the start of a child's pre-school education.

If a child is toilet trained and regresses when they start school in September, and then again when they return from half-term, then perhaps there is an issue with school readiness.

MTG,

In what way is intellectaul readiness and social readiness for pre-school (not school, this child is 3) measured by the performance of one's bladder and bowels???

I was addressing the case of the OP's child, not all children in general.

I repeat, in the case of the OP, in what way does the performace of his bladder reflect his intellectual and social readiness for school??

He is regressing, according to the OP, when he goes back to school after a break?

It is usually parents who can only just manage fees who are the worst.

You have got to be kidding.
What spectacular dumbfuckery.

Just my experience. YMMV.

When he is in a pre-school environment that offers zero support for toileting (such as not reminding him to go to the toilet) and fiilled with exciting toys and other activities (and possibly far too much sitting still and listening on the carpet) and possibly other issues (such as being afraid of the toilet or being bullied by others or having to share the toilet with older children etc etc) then he has accidents.

That is still not a sign of intellectual or social unreadiness. It is an issue that needs to be investigated and addressed by the early years setting, who should be offering support and help (not with toilet training, but with finding out why there is a difference between school and home) but is in no way linked to intellectual and social unreadiness for a pre-school setting.

DS, for example, is excessively literal-minded to a disabling degree. If he is told that he cannot go to the toilet except at break, he will obey the rule even if he wets himself. This year - he is now in Year 6 - is the only year I have not had to go in to remind his teacher of this. He is not unready for school - he is exceptionally capable and is predicted Level 5s and 6s in all his SATs. There is an underlying reason for his toilet issues that can be easily adressed, and the same may well be true for the OP's child.

OP - This setting isn't working for him (or you) - find another one. He's doing well to be mostly trained at 3 - many aren't.

Wow, I am so glad my dd2 goes to an ordinary primary school, where, when she suddenly had a few accidents in Reception, were ultra-nice about it and even suggested we bring in a spare uniform/set of clothes just in case. She came home wearing lost property on several notable occasions in the first term having wet herself. They chatted with her, and me, and found ways to remind her in the school day. They were so nice about it I actually had to have a word with my dd2 about really trying not to wet her pants, as she said 'the teachers said it's fine, mummy'.

She was five, not three, and nice schools (fee-paying or otherwise) understand that children do have accidents, even some have persistent accidents when they are young. In fact, I'm pretty sure that in the state sector, they have to educate your child, weeing or not, so you would be fine there.

I am not against fee-paying schools, but this one sounds so up its own arse, you are best off out of it and there are some lovely schools and teachers out there who will help and not make this a big deal.

I would also say that I have an older child who had bladder issues due to underlying problems, and they were also so lovely about that, and that involved reassuring an upset 7 year old that all was well and making sure no-one bullied her. The more I think about it, the nicer our ordinary primary school is!

In terms of you moving forward...my DS at age 4 was at nursery and then progressed to reception at a different school.
He enjoyed the first place and was reluctant to change (no choice in reality, only space was new school).
He loves new school, refers back to his old school with affection but not regret. At this age they are very adaptable so please do not worry too much (easier said than done).

modernlifeishubris, it is difficult but I also know he will love any new place(s) he goes to. It did break my heart today, as I've been gently trying to sell to him that he is now 'finished at his pre-reception and moving on to a new nursery, then moving onto big children's primary school...etc.', but tonight, he finally replied very quietly that his best friends are all at x school, and mumbled something about going back to nursery again(rather than forward I think is what he was trying to say), and whispered that the new primary school won't allow him in because he wets his pants. :(

Well done Fabby for making the OP feel even more crap than she already does.Just six posts in.Slow hand clap.

modernlife how's it going? Just read your last post and I really feel for you.

I'm sure you've reassured your DS that his new nursery won't mind at all if he has the occasional accident, as most children his age do.

Poor little mite.

I feel for you OP. My ds is 3 years 3 months and still not toilet trained despite my best efforts! He attends a state nursery 5 mornings and also a private nursery for wraparound care 2 afternoons a week. They have both been fantastically supportive on this issue. Also whoever suggested that not being toilet trained could mean he's not ready for preschool is talking rubbish. In every other way he's getting on very well, he loves going to both nurseries.

I hope you can find a successful solution op.

Something you do find very occassionally with teachers is one who is so used to dealing with children and always being right, that they are unable to deal with adults in a normal adult-to-adult manner. You may have just found you are dealing with a head teacher like that or even a whole school with that mentality. It might explain why they dealt so poorly with your discussions with the manager and deputy manager and why the head teacher found it appropriate to "tell you off" and then tell your husband that it wasn't appropriate for you to respond to her comments. She might just as well have said "don't answer back, don't you know it is rude to answer back to adults?"

It is really sad as they are a poor reflection of a the majority of teachers and early years practitioners who want to work collaboratively with parents to enable each child to flourish.