To be livid with independent pre-prep school for excluding my 3 year old DS1

[mumoftwolilboys]

...for wetting his pants?

It's the whole way it's been done. We had no warning that he was going to be excluded and suddenly out of the blue, a phone call came one evening just after half term stating that he's had a few accidents that week and therefore he will not be allowed in the next day. No procedures followed. I was suddenly out of childcare and had to take emergency time off work.

I know the school policy states that he cannot be in nappies, but he isn't in nappies. DS1 has been potty training since 19 months and went through terrible regression after the birth of DS2 9 months ago, who had very bad feeding problems till he was nearly 6 months so we weren't able to give DS1 all the attention that a toddler craved. We TOLD the school about his regresion (in 3 separate documents and discussions), but as DS1 was starting to do so well and was dry with us all the time, and not doing badly at nursery, we did not even worry about this issue. Unfortunately, DS1 had a very bad start upon starting pre-reception in Sept, and was immediately stigmatised as the one with potty training problem. This didn't help as the negative attention given to him just flared the problem. The school did not do anything positive to help, apart from the token gestures and pretense in trying to get DS1 to not have accidents (mostly involving pressure against us as parents and making us pass the pressure to DS1). What makes me even more livid is the fact that before the 2 week half term we have just had, DS1 was actually doing very well and only had couple of wet accidents per week. He hardly ever has accidents with us (apart from tiny patches) because we never ever pressure him or remind him to go to the toilet when with us. DS1 normally marches himself into the toilet at home and does it all himself.

We have been very forceful in writing letter, getting policy documents, meeting up (all of which WE had to take initiative, not the school), and finally got DS1 back into school today with the condition that he would need to be withdrawn by next Wednesday if he had more than 1 accident in a week. I was allowed to come in for a couple of hours towards the end of the day(though the manager had thoroughly fought against that) to observe why DS1 keeps wetting his pants in school. I spoke to the manager and deputy manager, asking how they do certain things and why, and giving feedback on what I thought they did that wasn't working. I smiled and made light hearted comments, staying professional all throughout. When I got home, I was shocked to hear a voice message left on our phone from the headteacher stating that I was rude to the manager and deputy manager, including criticising them and resulted in one being in tears (WTF?!). I do not have a clue what they are talking about, apart from the fact that it's probably a means for them to say that I can no longer go in to observe my DS1. They once again said that it's best if DS1 was withdrawn from school. Hope it's not cynical of me to feel the only crime we have actually committed against the school is not being the rich parent that they want us to be. But why admit us in the first place?!

I have called OFSTED, ISI, LEA. They have all said that the school can do whatever they like as they do not report to any of them. I have gone through in detail with each of them, challenging DDA law and framework but apparently they are not breaking any rules. Also, they can choose to follow EYFS but they don't have to because it is a private school and toileting is a very wishy washy area. Department of Education has agreed to look at my letter if I complain to them, but why do I have this sinking feeling that nothing will come of it?

Our poor DS1 has been traumatised since the phone conversation, which came during the DC's dinner time. It seems like they are making it a habit to call us during the DC's dinner time, completely disrupting our lives.

Regretting choosing a private pre-prep to begin with, one that claimed to be inclusive. We thought it was going to save us a little money compared to nursery but oh boy, now it's costing us thousands more. Just an indication of how much we've lost, the smalles cost we will be losing is in the uniform that we've spent over £400 and he has only been wearing them for 7 weeks!!

Am I allowed to name the school in this thread? Am I even posting in the right section? Please let me know if I'm not.

When I went on this thread I was expecting that the OP ds son had done something really awful like biting a teacher or refusing to do any of he activites.

My son almost got kicked out of pre school because he wouldn't sit still. In the end we saw a community paedatrian who realised that my son was showing signs of deafness. My son failed a hearing test very badly and it was found he had glue ear. The glue ear was treated and my son has been fine since.

Does the OP son get the early years grant? I was under the impression that ANY place that claimed the early years grant for pre school education had to allow incontinent children to attend. My son's private pre school were not allowed to exclude my son even though they wanted to. He was very challenging because he had no speech, could not follow instructions and they had no extra support. In many ways I felt quite sorry for them.

I find it shocking that a school is taking such a harsh line on toilet accidents. I imagine that the poor little boy is so nervous of having an accident he forgets to go to the toilet. OP ds needs to go to a more humane nursery. I think a private day nursery would be better than a school nursery. State school nurseries often expect the parents to come in and change pooy pants. Although state school nurseries are far kinder about accidents than this pre prep.

I expect the poor lo is missing his friends. He will make friends in a new nursery. I expect the whole thing has been very traumatic for him.

Ds went to school at 3.5 - I left a bag of spare clothes on his peg just in case of accidents. They're just a fact of life at that stage - children get too immersed in what they're doing until its too late sometimes (unless they're in a home environment when its easier to notice the tell-tale signs or think that they've not been for a while...). Doesn't sound the sort of school that I would want my son to be in tbh, I would cut your losses and find somewhere more caring.

If it was my son and I really wanted him to go to the prep school the pre prep feeds into then I would keep him out of the pre prep until he is completely dry then send him there again. However if you have no intention of sending him to the prep school I would look around at other nurseries.

another reason not to choose private education, they are not answerable to any one else.

If i were you i would fine another school. takes 2 weeks off potty training and let him be then reitnroduce slowly.
re the school, id gather all the evidence (calling you at wrong times, the lie they told about you being upset) and hand them out to dry at the department of education.
make sure every parent you know know they bully children and parents at this school

Childminder so that he's cared for in a homelike atmosphere, then normal school when he's school age. And sell the uniform to someone who's daft enough to send their child to this ghastly place next year.

Independent schools are accountable to no one, and select as they wish. You have sadly been unselected - but that goes with the territory. Good that it happened now rather than when he's 7.

Take him out, sell the uniform. Cut your losses. You are right - the relationship with the school has broken down and you really don't need the stress.

Stop trying to complain and focus on reassuring DS. He should not be traumatised by a phone call that you took. If you calm down, perhaps he will too. (and I don't mean that harshly)

He'll be happy at a different pre-school. Honest.

Oh yes vomit. DD was sick at nursery - proper projectile vomiting all over her teacher, 2 of her friends, a pile of books and a pair of shoes that were drying by the radiator She barely got a drop on herself except round her mouth. result I get a call saying soandso isn't very well, we've made up a bed for her and school nurse is with her but please will you come and get her asap. I was greeted by a teacher with damp hair and a fixed smile, wearing a tracksuit who told me not to worry about a thing and that the other girls had been dressed in lost property. OP don't keep your little one there find a school like DD's that tolerates these horrible things with a smile. (Poor little DD ended up in hospital on a drip with suspected appendicitis and 15 cards from the children in her nursery group)

fuck them fuck them fuck them!!!! I am SO ANGRY on your behalf

you are well rid

revenge is a dish served cold, main focus is on getting DS into a kinder better environment. then read ts and cs again, can they do this, I mean really?

But before them, focus should be on your child as it does sound like its been horrible for him. So get him settled and happy (and most nureries are happy places) then focus on them

Its vile tho, DS1 Nursery asks for them to be potty trained, but do have spare dry clothes so clearly there is an ackonwledgement that 3 yr olds can/do have accidents

I couldn't read this and not reply.

OP, I feel so sorry for you and your DS. What a horrible, stressful position the school have put you in.

It does sound as though you are thinking of removing your DS from this school, which I suspect will be a good thing. You are now marked down as "troublesome" and your DS is obviously marked down as the same, and has been for some time.

I can't believe that a school that accepts children as young as 3 can behave in such a cold and harsh way - not just to your DS himself but also to you as a parent.

I have my 3 yrd old DS in a private day nursery and the level of care, attention and kindness shown by the staff there is wonderful, and it is constant. It sounds as though your DS actually is unhappy at school, as his wetting shows, but he is somehow scared to tell you this and instead responds by being over-enthusiastic.

Good luck sorting this mess out. I feel you have, as a family, been let down hugely by this institution.

Please beleive us that there are some lovely PS out there, really lovely ones like soandsomummy mentions

Seconded - there are lovely caring pre-preps out there if you want to go private (and of course lovely caring state primaries and associated pre-schools). DC's school couldn't be more different to what you describe - especially the nursery class which is a truly lovely place with teachers and TAs who go way beyond the call of duty.

Get DS out of there, regroup in whatever way makes him feel most secure, and then consider your options for next move.

My 3 year old twins DSs are at a pre-pre school.

Uniform consists of track-suits (I bought two sets each), a school anorak and a school painting apron.

It came to about £140 between for the two of them. I fully expect the anorak to last the next 2-3 years as I bouhgt big and the DSs are small.

All the prep-preps around here have the same very simple uniform.

As for toilet training - they were very happy for the DC to take this at their own pace.

I think a lot of the posters are just enjoying knocking prep schools without knowing anything about them.

Definitely not state vs private just good school vs poor one or school that is right for your child vs not.

Around here there is very little state provision for preschool and so the preschools are mainly private. Not pre-preps obviously! But private all teh same and yes they follow all teh guidelines and yes they are lovely.

Name, shame and walk away.

I think the lesson here is that there are good and bad private schools just the same as the public sector.

My DD12 went into a pre prep school at 3 1/2 because she needed the stimulation and structure that they offered. It was a fantastic experience for her and at 12 I consider much of her progress both emotionally and academically is because of that early experience of school. However although she was dry on the whole she had a few accidents here and there and the teachers never made a big deal of it or complained. They should have procedures in place - if they don't thats a problem with them not your little boy

My DS is 19 months and is currently at the nursery attached to the preschool. He loves it but whether he will be ready to move to the preschool at 3 1/2 or whether he will go straight into reception from nursery will depend on him.

Only you can judge what is best for your little boy and this place probably isn't it but don't let it get to you and look at it as a lesson learned that cost does not equate to the best

My ds goes to a private pre-prep and has done since 2.5yrs. Although they say they must be toilet trained they accept accidents happen and were very supportive when he first started, in particular. I think what I'd be most annoyed about is the manner it's been dealt with-no warning, no prior consultation with you, just telling you to remove him.

I think you'd be best to cut your losses and find somewhere else. How dare they treat you and your little boy like that, over something that's part and parcel of growing up. I'd be very worried if he stayed how they would deal with any real problems (bullying, behaviour, struggling to read). They sound very uncaring and your son deserves better than that. I would also phone and speak to the head and make a point of mentioning the money the school will be missing out on-not just from ds but also from his younger sibling.

This school suits neither you or your son so remove him and don't look back.

FWIW my DS (then 3) punched (yes really ) his very lovely teacher at his prep prep nursery. I was quietly told what had happened (without attributing blame/anger) and kindly asked if there was anything that was unsettling him. They were genuinely concerned for his well being. That is the reaction you want from those caring and educating your DC and certainly the one you should expect.

I don't think I'd want him to return there. My son is 3 and goes to a lovely Surestart nursery, on the same site as a state primary. He has his brekkie at nursery then is walked over to the school. Like all three year olds he'll have an accident if he is engrossed in an activity. A teaching assistant, teacher or nursery worker will change his clothes - without embarrassing him - comfort him if he's upset, put into another pair of school trousers, and his wet clothers are bagged up and left on the peg for us to take home. My friend's son has a lot of accidents and attends another state primary where they take the same approach. I'd be furious if my son was treated as your son has been - and if I'd paid a fortune for the privilege I'd be apoplectic. Suggest you check out the local state primaries, or a nice day nursery.

They don't want him there. They see him as hassle and they don't have to make the effort to accommodate that. It's horrid but true and better you found out that's what they're like now than later. Get him out.

Thank you all for your lovely messages. I am reading them all and feeling much better. You won't believe how much I appreciate this and how much difference it's making to my day. I'm absolutely exhausted with this whole mess and haven't slept properly for over a week. I know it's such a nothing issue, but somehow when it involves any DC I cannot help but go OTT.

We know there are lovely nurseries out there, including the one he used to attend, though he's obviously lost his place there now and it's full. It's just how he was absolutely thriving there that makes me ever so slightly sad (tho that sadness has very quickly diminished to nought) that he's been forced to leave. We've got further talks with the school so let's hope it all works out for the best of DS1 and our pockets.

It's not a nothing issue at all. It's your sons happiness. Though I'm sure he will thrive somewhere new as well. He must have been picking up on the stress so hopefully will be more relaxed out of it. I would leave any further talks with the school to your dh.

They've already either made stuff up about you or are taking you the wrong way. Would be interesting to see if they are the same with your dh. Either they won't be which will benefit you in talks to get fees back or they will be which will confirm what nasty arses they are.

Its not a nothing issue. The health and happiness of our children is everything. Most of us would be ballastic if our children were treated in such a fashion.

I suggest you contact the old nursery. You might be surprised and find a place comes up. Children often leave a private nursery at Christmas to start a new school or children move out of the area. You have nothing to lose by asking.

Independent schools afaik do have to follow EYFS rules/guidelines.curriculum.

But this school doesn't sound good at all. I would be looking at alternatives.

Not all independent schools are like this btw. Many are great. Like with all childcare options for the under 5s, and with all schools thereafter - you need to look around and see them to find out which you will like and which will suit you. Sadly, in such cases it's nto always possible to know until things occur, like in this case. But you do know know - and at least you know now whilst DS is so little and not after he has started proper school.

Can you not talk to the governers of the school to complain?

In your place I wouldn't want to leave him there as the head sounds like an obstructive witch (or has she been mislead by the staff you were observing?), either way, I'm sure there are other lovely schools that he will fit in to just fine in another year.