To be livid with independent pre-prep school for excluding my 3 year old DS1

[mumoftwolilboys]

...for wetting his pants?

It's the whole way it's been done. We had no warning that he was going to be excluded and suddenly out of the blue, a phone call came one evening just after half term stating that he's had a few accidents that week and therefore he will not be allowed in the next day. No procedures followed. I was suddenly out of childcare and had to take emergency time off work.

I know the school policy states that he cannot be in nappies, but he isn't in nappies. DS1 has been potty training since 19 months and went through terrible regression after the birth of DS2 9 months ago, who had very bad feeding problems till he was nearly 6 months so we weren't able to give DS1 all the attention that a toddler craved. We TOLD the school about his regresion (in 3 separate documents and discussions), but as DS1 was starting to do so well and was dry with us all the time, and not doing badly at nursery, we did not even worry about this issue. Unfortunately, DS1 had a very bad start upon starting pre-reception in Sept, and was immediately stigmatised as the one with potty training problem. This didn't help as the negative attention given to him just flared the problem. The school did not do anything positive to help, apart from the token gestures and pretense in trying to get DS1 to not have accidents (mostly involving pressure against us as parents and making us pass the pressure to DS1). What makes me even more livid is the fact that before the 2 week half term we have just had, DS1 was actually doing very well and only had couple of wet accidents per week. He hardly ever has accidents with us (apart from tiny patches) because we never ever pressure him or remind him to go to the toilet when with us. DS1 normally marches himself into the toilet at home and does it all himself.

We have been very forceful in writing letter, getting policy documents, meeting up (all of which WE had to take initiative, not the school), and finally got DS1 back into school today with the condition that he would need to be withdrawn by next Wednesday if he had more than 1 accident in a week. I was allowed to come in for a couple of hours towards the end of the day(though the manager had thoroughly fought against that) to observe why DS1 keeps wetting his pants in school. I spoke to the manager and deputy manager, asking how they do certain things and why, and giving feedback on what I thought they did that wasn't working. I smiled and made light hearted comments, staying professional all throughout. When I got home, I was shocked to hear a voice message left on our phone from the headteacher stating that I was rude to the manager and deputy manager, including criticising them and resulted in one being in tears (WTF?!). I do not have a clue what they are talking about, apart from the fact that it's probably a means for them to say that I can no longer go in to observe my DS1. They once again said that it's best if DS1 was withdrawn from school. Hope it's not cynical of me to feel the only crime we have actually committed against the school is not being the rich parent that they want us to be. But why admit us in the first place?!

I have called OFSTED, ISI, LEA. They have all said that the school can do whatever they like as they do not report to any of them. I have gone through in detail with each of them, challenging DDA law and framework but apparently they are not breaking any rules. Also, they can choose to follow EYFS but they don't have to because it is a private school and toileting is a very wishy washy area. Department of Education has agreed to look at my letter if I complain to them, but why do I have this sinking feeling that nothing will come of it?

Our poor DS1 has been traumatised since the phone conversation, which came during the DC's dinner time. It seems like they are making it a habit to call us during the DC's dinner time, completely disrupting our lives.

Regretting choosing a private pre-prep to begin with, one that claimed to be inclusive. We thought it was going to save us a little money compared to nursery but oh boy, now it's costing us thousands more. Just an indication of how much we've lost, the smalles cost we will be losing is in the uniform that we've spent over £400 and he has only been wearing them for 7 weeks!!

Am I allowed to name the school in this thread? Am I even posting in the right section? Please let me know if I'm not.

i would look into your childcare tbh, a baby in nursey and another in a private school seems alot.

i bet you could get a nanny/childminder alot cheaper

The other thing to consider is, if they're being nasty to you about his accidents, how are they treating him? I couldn't bear the thought of my son being told off and criticised for wetting himself at such a young age.

Children get used to situations and don't often welcome change. In my experience it doesn't necessarily mean they're happy with the status quo.

You will find this and so much more at a truly good school.

"As said, DS1 loves the school. Does well, loves learning, loves all the activities, loves everything they do! He comes home and plays school, full of happiness."

Yes the DDA (or the Equalities Act as it now is) is law, so should apply to all schools.

Why are you keeping your ds somewhere which is so negative? Your ds may feel the pressure whilst there and be wetting because of that. Anyway he is only 3 and they do have the occasional accidents. I personally would find somewhere else if I were you.

Sounds a terrible place. Really suggest you find a childminder who will give him the attention and kindness he needs. My childminders have been more flexible on hours and all sorts of stuff than most nurseries, let alone a pre-prep would be.

I never know why people pay for something they don't like. Move him to somewhere more child friendly.

Get him out if you can. He can honestly like another setting just as much as the one he is in now. He is only 3 so will easily adjust.

I too would be worried about how they treated him after an accident, when you were not there. I have 3 year old twins who occasionally have accidents and I would seriously tell anyone to Fuck right off if they had that attitude to me - ie lying about conversations and making up stories about teachers crying - pathetic people!!

Best that DS is 'withdrawn from the school' - bloody stupid, irrational, unrealistic and down right rude, uptight and obnoxious school that sounds like to me.

(sorry - feeling pre-menstrual tonight!)

They do not sound like they have very good experience with young children. I am sure your ds will like another childcare setting. Have you looked into getting a CM, they are cheaper than nurseries. I just could not leave a child there when the staff are so negative!

Many three year olds just aren't ready for a school setting, understandably- they are basically toddlers. That sort of place just exists to screw money out of aspirational parents, from what I can tell.

I agree that this school is clearly not for your son and from some of the things you have said, it goes much deeper than him wetting himself. DD went to nursery in a private school where they also say that children should be toilet trained before entering but they also add that they may wear pull ups during first year or so of nursery as long as they can change them themselves and clean themselves with assistance if necessary. They obviously don't encourage this but neither do they frown upon it. They also insisted all children came to school with extra under wear and I also kept extra clothes at school just in case as they accept accidents will happen

I think you need to talk to the head about your son leaving and try to come to an arrangement that does not involve having to pay next terms fees (as most likely you'll need to give a full terms notice or pay in lieu of notice) You may be able to agree something by mutual consent.

Cut your losses, find a child minder and look for a school or nursery that will treat your child like a child and not a mini adult

oh and will you pm me name of school just in case I need to warn good friend who's currently looking for somewhere for her son!

Independent schools do have to follow EYFS and the early years departments are Ofsted inspected.

..and a £400 uniform for a 3yo is ludicrous and speaks volumes about the pretentiousness of the school. DC's uniform for pre-prep could be acquired second hand (from the school, you don't have to "know people") for

Your son might be happy there but the setting is unsuitable for him. You get to make decisions about what suitable or not. Not him. You need to find a new childcare setting, explain to your son that he is moving somewhere better and retake control of your child's welfare. This school do not havebhis wekfare at heart.
Sorry you are going through this.

I'm glad I've come on to find so many supportive messages. DH has just spoken to headteacher who has criticised me for ringing back and leaving nasty messages, and for e-mailing her (one to explain that I had not been rude and then another Ps. type one that said I would not hesistate to apologise to the deputy manager if she was in any way upset). Obviously I now know bad move on my part for returning her calls as obviously I can't seem to win whatever I do. We know where they're going, first they will say we're unreasonable, then that we're abusive. First they victimised DS1, and now they victimise me. Been in tears all morning but now I'm quickly coming to terms that such an evil institution does not deserve any more of my/DS's time or tears.

Sounds like you're making the right decision, can you imagine dealing with these people for the next eight years?!

Quite a few of DD's pre-school friends didn't get places in the Reception class (narrower catchment) and they were all upset about leaving their friends, promising to be good if they were allowed into the school and all sorts.
But they are all happy and settled now at their new schools with new friends, hopefully there's every chance your DS will be too.

Just be glad you found out how crappy they are so soon....better now when he is so small than when he is settled.

I thought my DDs prep was looking after her so well and then we moved this year when she turned 7...due to finances and lo and behold she was BEHIND in maths and writing! She's almost caught up in only half a term at an oustanding state school and her confidence has soared thanks to sensitive, modern teaching.

We were on a full bursary but if I had paid full fees I would have been more angry.

makes me mad this story the kids only 3 the fact he is dry when he's with you shows your doing every thing right my daughter was 3 and she had some accidents but was perfectly dry when she was home with me when i picked her up they said infront of the parents your child has wet herself again this made me so cross i said shes dry when shes with me so its your fault i said cant you just encourage her to go to the toilet a bit more because sometimes theres a lot going on in nursey and my daughter was proberly excited and getting distracted and holding it in and after i argued and screamed blue murder they did actually keep an eye on her and encouraged her to go to toilet she was actually ok. its plain ignorance that they expect a child of 3 not to have ant accidents. your a good parent so dont forget that and your paying all that money too its sounds very stuck up schooland snobberish to me.id take himout

He is very young to be at a "proper" school. Are you sure you want to go down the private route for both your kids?

What is your local state primary school like? If it is good, could you consider that for next year and try and get him a place now at the local primary school nursery instead. It would be free for the morning or afternoon session.

Can you find out what childminders support the primary school and if they do drop offs pick ups at the school.

We have 2 private nurseries and 3 childminders that do wrap around care for the local school nursery (they take them and pick them up and look after for the rest of the day) so working mums have quite a few options. There are also a couple of playgroups too.

Would anything like this exist or work for you?

Apologies if you have already considered all this already...

Definitely tell OFSTED about this. If no-one reports these things nothing will change.

I do not think 3 year olds are necessarily too young for "school" or kindergarten. In Italy the vast majority of kids go to kindergarten from the age 3 and it's seen as totally normal and a positive thing.

My DD's kindergarten requires children to be autonomous from the age of three, but at the same time they are perfectly aware that toddlers have accidents (or are sad, or need a cuddle), and they are trained to deal with it - so they try to take children to the toilet regularly, and they support those who have accidents with stickers or whatever it takes. A pre-prep that takes kids from the age of three should be geared towards helping in these kind of situations, not putting pressure on parents! And even if they are private, surely they have a "duty of care" towards the children and their family : handing over soggy clothes with a disgusted face is a terrible attitude to have for an early years teacher. What would they do if a child happens to vomit? Do they call the parents to clean up?

I would walk away now.

When I rang up the dc's pre-prep to delay ds's start due to him not being toilet trained they told me that they were no longer allowed to discriminate against children who were not toilet trained as it came under some new disability legislation.

It is a non selective school though (only selective from prep onwards)

Their uniform was a watered down version of the uniform required from reception onwards (polo shirt, trousers, jumper and fleece rather than blazer, shirt and tie.)

I'm almost sure they can't opt out of EYFS under the age of rising 5's.

I don't think I would like my children there and would be very annoyed.

It sounds like a dreadful place! I wouldn't want my 3 yr old there

Take him out. Just do it. It's not worth the stress to you of trying to sort it out - it sounds unsortable. Write it off to experience, flog the uniform second hand, put him somewhere else. The idea that they would be upset/angry at a 3yo having a few accidents is baffling and awful.

Look at some "normal" preschools - I think you will find that many of them are lovely environments run by caring professionals who follow the under5s framework thingy and are great. Our preschool is open 9-4 which I imagine must be similar hours to the school your son is at. And they don't have a wear a uniform and it's fine if they have an accident and they just have a great time.