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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to confiscate her bank card?

402 replies

WongaWoman · 10/11/2011 21:11

Today I opened the October bank statement of my eldest DD (19) and was horrified to discover that she was overdrawn by £280, had been charged nearly £90 in authorised and unauthorised overdraft charges, had accrued over £40 so far this month in charges, and she had received a payday loan of £100 from a well known online payday loan company earlier in October.

She is only on apprentice pay of £2.60 per hour! I have now nearly killed myself to pay off her payday loan and overdraft. With back up from my DH I have confiscated her bank card until I get all my money back as I thought it was the cheapest option for her. She was in floods of tears tonight in embarrassment and at losing her independence.

I don't really know what else I could have done. AIBU?

OP posts:
Xenia · 18/11/2011 22:42

"Best bits"? Dealing with 15 nappies a day instead of 2? Holding crying baby for 10 hours not 3? What are these best bits? The best is to have wonderful work you love and a lovely family. The worst is a life of low pay and omesticity and the tedium of day after day of wheels on a bus and cleaning up after a man and his children.

Part time is a paternalistic con to ensure women never gain any money or power and they take it up at their economic and psychological peril. It is a quicksand they need to skirt around.

Xenia · 18/11/2011 22:43

On rel's post though how can anyone suggest the average Tesco checkout operative is not below in a hierachy. Of course we want them to have the same rights under the law and a right to vote etc but it is not snobbish to suggest serving behind the till is not as good as chairing the Tesco board.

We need the Tesco workers but most of us would prefer our chidlren were not they as it's low paid and not that great a job.

bringmesunshine2009 · 18/11/2011 23:12

Just when Lydders couldn't get any more barking...

Girls who get dressed in pink are raised to get married and not pursue education? The implication you cannot derive satisfaction from looking after your children?

And again, the presumption that unless you aspire to have a career you are somehow lacking?

I want my children to do well and have the security that good careers bring. But only for that reason, security. I also want them to be happy, fulfilled with high self esteem.

I can't think of anything more crushing to self esteem than being shoved into following a career path way beyond your skillset. How demoralising for a practically accomplished child to feel pushed into an intellectual career.

bringmesunshine2009 · 18/11/2011 23:13

Also OP, opening a 19yo mail? YABVU

marriedinwhite · 18/11/2011 23:52

Oh dear - too tired to post a rational post! Will think about this tomorrow. Anotehr hijacked thread worthy of merit. In brief Xenia, I loved being a full-time mummy - the jobs might have been boring and repetitive but the dc made up for it in spades. My ma worked full-time when I was little and I vowed I would be there for my dc, full time and all the time (went back to work though when the little one was 5- got bored).

I was on £100k+ when ds was born but happily gave it up to be with him - he was worth it and I loved every minute. Never intended to have a career - had a fab time at finishing school - wasn't regarded as clever at school although I did an IQ test and it was 137! Perhaps I did well because I never thought I was clever but learnt some humility along the way.

marriedinwhite · 19/11/2011 07:07

I'm going to take issue with the fact that the best schools spot the best at 5 and don't weed out and that Xenia compares a top school getting almost a 100% to good universities whilst the local comp does far less well at 34%.

DS goes to a top selective school - one of the best performing in the country; in fact the world for IB. They do select well and not many are weeded out or leave because they can't cope but the competition to get in is fierce - you only have to look at the threads in education at selection time! It's a school that suits an alpha child.

DD is a much more average child and the equivalents of DS's school would not have suited her at all. She works harder, is a freer spirit and may do very well because of her determination, individuality and buckets of emotional intelligence. She would not be happy in a school where 100% go to top universities - she would be utterly crushed.

Ultimately we have to play to our children's strengths and make sure they are happy. I hope mine will carve their way en-route. Someone once said that no man will be rich unless he does something he loves (or woman). I want my children to do what they love whatever it is and if they are rich in material terms sobeit but providing they are rich in fulfilment, happiness and love they will be rich enough.

I am content Xenia - I am satisfied with what I have achieved, what I put in my purse personally, with whom I married, where I live, and most of all with where I have been and where I am going.

exoticfruits · 19/11/2011 07:16

In my nephew's case they were all weaned out because anyone could pay and send their DC at 3 yrs, after that competition was fierce at each stage so those who didn't measure up were not allowed to go on.

I will have to beg to differ Xenia, I can't think of any job as interesting as bringing up your DCs. I would hate to have to leave them with someone else while I had to chair the board of BP-something I wouldn't want to do for any money! It holds no interest for me at all.

exoticfruits · 19/11/2011 07:18

The worst is a life of low pay and omesticity and the tedium of day after day of wheels on a bus and cleaning up after a man and his children

I can never understand why people think that you have to do this and can't have the freedom for intellectual stimulation at home.

marriedinwhite · 19/11/2011 07:30

You're up early Exotic! Done anything tediously domestic yet? Wink

exoticfruits · 19/11/2011 07:34

Off for the weekend marriedinwhite-other than making my own breakfast nothing domestic to be done until Monday morning-and then I will be out working most of the day. Just interesting-not a Xenia rated occupation,but not tedious either (i.e. not the check out at Tesco)

marriedinwhite · 19/11/2011 07:37

Enjoy!

exoticfruits · 19/11/2011 07:42

Thanks! (If I was chairing BP I would probably have work to take with me)

Xenia · 19/11/2011 09:11

I think that's why they test at 4 or 5. One school said it used just to start at 7+ as then you can have written tests but found it was as good at picking at 5 as 7 so tehy changed and I genuinely never saw much weeding out. They were just good at choosing clever children and then supporting them when they were there. I accept that if you take all comers at 3 years who might well be thick as a plank then that might not end up being the right school at 11+ and you need to let the parents know well in advance.

This was not a thread about women. It was (well I made it so) one about career aspirations and how your genes and enviornment/ parents and school determine that.

I hope none of us shovel chidlren into jobs but I do think high aspirations and seeing mothers working in good careers does help daughters. The fact most adults find 24/7 childcare and housework boring and don't choose to do it is not at all surprising.

ChesterDraws · 19/11/2011 09:23

xenia said "We have pretty good class mobility in the UK"

Now I know she has no idea at all. Case closed.

saggarmakersbottomknocker · 19/11/2011 09:47

'On rel's post though how can anyone suggest the average Tesco checkout operative is not below in a hierachy. Of course we want them to have the same rights under the law and a right to vote etc but it is not snobbish to suggest serving behind the till is not as good as chairing the Tesco board.'

You're attitude belongs in the 1900s Xenia.

I'm assuming this is your hierachy we're talking about here? It's a snobbish upper class attitude. You see the Tesco operative as below you because they earns less and you think they're a bit thick. Beneath you because in your eyes they contribute less to society. It's offensive frankly. Jeez they're even allowed to vote. Whatever next?

My son works in Sainsbury's pretty much full-time. He's also a full time student and does 8 hours a week voluntary work, that gives him a 19 hour day some days. He is motivated and works damn hard. Does that put him up the heirachy a bit? Oh maybe not because he's not at RG university and his chosen career isn't one that will pay £££ but it is one that you can't do without.

Xenia · 19/11/2011 09:52

I am not the person who does this. Our society pays people according to certain levels. That does not mean we don't respect all individuals regardless of income but there is status and to assume there is none is just wrong. (Also class and income do not go together always in the UK either but that's a separate topic).

The UK has much better class mobility than many other cultures and although apparently it has got a bit worse than the 60s it is not impossible to move class in the UK and much much easier than in many places on the planet. We're very lucky.

Here is a very interesting Times piece from today which I would like to see the subject of a class discussion for every set of 14 year olds in the country next week.

-00

Teach the young to talk and they might get a job

Stefanie Marsh
November 19 2011 12:01AM

"What kind of face, voice, demeanour can get you a job in today?s ever tightening market? If you?re a woman, a deep voice will apparently garner more respect; clear skin, regardless of gender, will allow you to sail through an interview more effectively than a face full of acne.

But there is another way to boost your job prospects, one that is so obvious that no social scientist would bother to investigate its merits, and yet nobody dares to speak its name. The ability to talk in good, clear, polite English would turn round the job prospects of thousands of young people in this country.

Social and youth workers know it; councils know it. (I?m not entirely sure teachers do.) But whoever does know it won?t say it. Not in public, anyway.

So when Boris Johnson asks why Pret A Manger doesn?t employ more British people, he is being disingenuous. The reason why our quite considerable service industries employ so many foreigners is not because the British are workshy or too proud to pour coffee or because, in some quasi-mystical way, foreigners are ?taking our jobs?. It is because the Spanish or Polish barrista speaks better English, more politely, than many of her British contemporaries.

I have worked as a volunteer with young people over the past few years and and am not the only person to have been struck by how little they learn about locution at school. Talking to youth workers, parents and charities about unemployment among young, economically disadvantaged people, I ask what single thing would improve their lives most. The answer, as weird as it sounds, is always the same: ?Elocution lessons.? Always followed by an anxious ?but you can?t print that?.

Why can?t we say it? We wring our hands about maths, reading and spelling, but say nothing about locution. As a culture we seem to confuse such ideas with classism or racism. A couple of people I?ve met even claim that it is ?patronising to young people?.

In other countries it is normal for children to speak a standard form of the national language in schools, regardless of what is spoken at home or on the bus. Yet here, many children do not have two registers. And to suggest that they develop a more formal style of speaking is seen as an attack on their sense of identity.

Of course, in this country we?re burdened with that toxically polarising phrase, ?the Queen?s English?. Can someone please come up with a more neutral equivalent?I?ve met maths prodigies in pupil referral units who find it hard to string a sentence together ? nobody has taught them how. I?ve met highly intelligent girls who are totally unable to articulate their feelings, much less their vision of their future. They languish, jobless, while the majority of shops, cafés, restaurants and hotels across Britain are staffed by eloquent foreigners.

What is worse, and this is a horrible truth, is that young people of disadvantaged backgrounds who cannot speak well treat anyone with a posh accent with deference. They feel diminished by it.

This matters now more than ever. In a world where large numbers of graduates are unemployed, the well spoken and the badly spoken are competing for the same jobs. I hate the idea that an eloquent thickhead will get the job that rightfully belongs to their less privileged peer, purely on account of their intonation and body language.

What to do? There is another group of workers who have been hit hard by the economic downturn and find themselves on the silver scrapheap ? horrible little phrase. If you?re over 50, redundant and face the prospect of being unable to find work in future, you?re on it.With time on their hands, these are exactly the people who could be so effective as volunteers in schools and youth clubs, although they are glaringly absent from these roles currently.

At a time of creeping, widespread unemployment, we understand that all that most people want, regardless of background, is a job. Having the language skills to get one is what every young person deserves."

saggarmakersbottomknocker · 19/11/2011 10:04

'I am not the person who does this'.

Rubbish. You perpetuate it Xenia. By the lack of value you place on lower paid but socially essential occupations.

ChesterDraws · 19/11/2011 10:12

Here is an interesting article on social mobility by the equality trust
Seems like we don't do that well in the UK

It also seems that the hordes of protesters camping outside St Pauls catherdral seem to have not had an impact on xenia at all. Which is very naughty of you, xenia, some of these people went to university and even have degrees

Heifer · 19/11/2011 10:18

Interesting thread. I admit I only have an almost 8yr old so no actual experience..

But 1 thing that jumps out at me, is that because the DD is living at home, and getting into debt, that could affect the parents credit rating - as I believe the home address is used.

That would therefore make it their business...

Makes me realise just how much work I will need to put in between now and then to get my DD to be open and honest with me... and even then no guarentees... I am naturally a nosy person, I like to read what DD writes in her diary even now, but I know its wrong and have stopped.. It's hard though.. I want to know how she is feeling, and even at almost 8 she doesn't always tell me...

Op I hope it all works out for you all. Hopefully she has learnt her lesson re loans..

marriedinwhite · 19/11/2011 10:22

For once Xenia, I agree with you or at least with Stefanie Marsh.

Xenia · 19/11/2011 10:43

Good. I suspect there is not too much disagreement - we all want ourselves and our children to be healthy and happy above all else.

On the issue of privacy parents have different views. We are very good at respecting the privacy of others in this house but not everyone has the same views around the country. Also some children want to say a lot and tlak about how they are. Others don't so you have to check on them by reading their vital signs - is teenager still breathing etc.

Verbal coherence in interviews etc many of which are initially on the telephone now to save interviewers time (if the graduate can get through the on line automatic application section, UCAS points requirements etc) is essential. I think a lot of parents would be better off spending spare money on elocution lessons for children or just speaking to them properly at home than on some coaching or even new trainers.

SarahStratton · 19/11/2011 11:16

I do think too many women set their sites too low

sights. It's from a shooting term, means aiming too low because you have sighted your gun too low.

I don't agree one bit. I am in the bottom 34% of household income. I'm a single parent, raising my 2 DDs with very little input/help from my XH. I receive no maintenance from him. Not a penny. When I met him, he was a high flyer with an excellent income and prospects. Basically, he dropped out.

I'm a SAHM, always have been, and have no intention of going back to work until DD2 leaves school. Then I may consider it, but only if I want to. Yet I have raised 2 intelligent and loving DDs, of whom I am extremely proud. Both are in top grammar schools, and both are performing very well. DD1 is taking 5 A Levels and got A/B's in her mocks this year. She wants to be a psychotherapist, and will be extremely good at this, if she succeeds. DD2 is a year ahead at school and wants to be a Forensic Anthropologist. My only blip is that DD2 seems to have inherited her father's depressive tendencies.

Money has played no part in this. I manage on £1,600pcm, have no debts and am careful. I own my own, 5 bedroom townhouse in a beautiful town. I own my own car. I have been fortunate enough to inherit money, and to have had a good divorce settlement. Day to day though I have very little to spend.

What I have done is spent time with my children. I have nurtured them, cared for them, been there for them to help with homework, and most of all listened to them. They are my own personal success story, and I am incredibly proud of them.

But I am proud of them for who they are. Kind, loving, thoughtful and caring. They know the value of money, and have managed their own accounts since they were young. It doesn't matter what they achieve monetarily, what matters is that they will be good members of society, who will contribute usefully.

Serenitysutton · 19/11/2011 12:55

I agree with xenia, and think her posts are very inspirational, actually. There is money to be made in this world and why should your neighbour get more of it than you? I for one, am quite amazed how easy it is to be successful and well thought of in your job, which leads to promotion and money. You just have to be dependable, smart (not necessarily intellectually, youhave to work smarter to get results) concentrate on output above all else and most importantly, postion yourself smartly. I'm a qualified accountant with a degree from a ex poly and average exam results from a comp. I'm not going to deloittes, I can't make a huge impact there. I can go to other places where expectations are lower and smash those expectations though, and that's my route to sucess. It's so much simplier than most people think, and ufortunatly seems to come more naturally to men.

Fwiw student loans should be thought of as an invetment, not a debt. I've certainly made far more than that debt in wages, the returnis far higher than most investments.

AlpinePony · 19/11/2011 14:55

Sarah is your 1600 a month after tax really that low in terms of averages? Sounds unlikely to me.

FabbyChic · 19/11/2011 15:03

Isnt 1600 a month around 26k? Id say the average earnings are far lower than that.

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