To think every SAHM, low hour PT worker and carer should read this?

[Peachy]

Well i am not but it matters to you so you must

here

Changes to system WRT worker hours

have a thread in chat and don;t want a debate, or at least won't participate iun one as petrified as we will now certianly lose our home and not up to taking flak. But if it affects you, you need to know.

sigh if you like but i am quoting the Children and Young Person?s Act... you are quoting...yourself!

If you want to leave your children alone when you know it's likely to place them at high risk, and then argue in court that this was not the same as leaving them unsupervised ?in a manner likely to cause unnecessary suffering or injury to health?, be my guest.

But of course you won't. You don't actually disagree with my meaning.

Does anybody honestly think that it's desirable for a twelve year old to be alone every day, for weeks on end?

Apparently so, emkana.

No, it is not "desirable" for a 12 yo to stay home alone for the entire summer holiday etc. Alternatively, it is not "desirable" that parent of said child gives that an excuse for not working.

At one point, children of that age would be working, in service, in factories, down mines etc. I am not suggesting a return to those days by any means, but the idea that (SN excepting) a child that age cannot be left alone in case they burn the house down is purely down to how we bring them up amd how little responsibility we give them.

And why did society move on from 12year olds being treated that way if it was so problem free?

I would like to see the adult who was left every day on his own at 12 years old who would say that it was a great thing. I fully believe that they are capable of feeding themselves and keeping themselves reasonably safe, but what about emotional support during that difficult time. Why is nobody thinking of new ways to make things work, instead of saying "can't pay for this anymore, so back to "good" old days when children coped as well"

Um, I am 43. When I was 12, I went out to play/read in my room/went to the beach/went to my mates house during the holidays. I was not sat in all day long needing emotional support. My concerns at that time were about Tony who lived next door (puppy love), wanting my ears pierced and whether or not Adam Ant had a girlfriend. Parents seemed mostly irrelevant.

Tillyminto, you were left alone once a week, not every night. You were given heaps of advice and warnings, you parents must have been very worried and my guess is that they would have prefered not to leave you alone like that and had no choice.

You are right that the wording likely to cause is a loose interpretation, and it allows for flexibility, such as in your personal situation. I leave mine alone for short periods of time if I know they're in bed. I think taking responsibility goes hand in hand with taking risks and both have to be eased in gradually over time. Children with disabilities are usually less predictable and someone being around for them is essential.

Which 12 year old is going to have the better outlook in life - the one in an empty house, free to watch crap tv all day, get up to all sorts on the Internet... Or the one who comes home to somebody to have a cup of tea and a chat with, someone who might give a few pointers for that school project, someone who is possibly going to cook some healthy food... Doesn't have to be a parent by any means, could be an au pair, a student, or good quality provision in schools. But I really think there should be more attempts to do things differently, shared working, flexible working, proper part time working, term time working, without employers straight away whining how their profits are suffering oh so much, but there's always money for a whacking huge salary for the bosses isn't there

Well I turned out OK - though there was no internet, and not much in the way of tv in my day. A few hints about a school project We were just feral during the holidays. It was wonderful. Camps in the fields. blackberry picking, camping in a friends garden. Coke floats, smashing july bugs with tennis rackets, going to the swings at dusk and getting scraps from the chippy on the way home. My parent figures precisely NOWHERE in all this.

I mean, I couldn't tell you who was home and when. I might have wanted money for when Mr Whippy came round at 8pm/

But that was just the holidays - not all year round.

I'm sorry portofino but that sounds like a John Lewis ad to me. How utterly idyllic, and good for you. Question is, how many 12 year olds nowadays could live like that? And the 12 year olds that I know still like to have time they can spend with their parents. And it makes a difference if you do all that free living stuff while knowing thatbsomebody is there in the background to catch you if you fall.

But that is what we were discussing. I already had a conversation with my 7 yo that when she goes to secondary school, she will get a key. She is excited about this.

A john lewis ad? I grew up on a council estate! It was not idyllic or posh.

I remember times when my mum had to work late and my brother tried and failed to cook something edible for us. It was utterly miserable. Having a key to use sometimes is of course exciting. Having to use it every day, being alone in the house every day is completely different. FFs when it's sahms on here everybody on here says "you must be going crazy in the house every day", or for a child its suddenly liberating and exciting?

Okay Hovis then

My point was that my parents were NOT the most important reference point in my life at that period. Yes, they were there. Puberty is time of independance I suppose. I paid little attention to them. I remember them being embarrassing.

Tillyminto, you were left alone once a week, not every night

I cooked once a week but my parents ran their own business so my DB & I let ourselves in every night.

I agree with Portofino that when you are 12 you arent that interested in your parents. Your friends & boys are far more interesting.

obviously children with some SNs do need more supervision but I cannot see under the new changes, looking after non SN teenage children being given as an acceptable reason not to work.

look at the riots, look at the unsociable behavior that is on the rise, the teens skipping school to protest , or just skipping school.
imo there needs to be more support for SAHP not less.

So families where both parents work pay more for SAHP?

What about the fact that a Minimum wage FT worker will be subject to sanctions on their UC if they DON'T EARN £212 A WEEK. Minimum wage for 40 hours a week is £211. Which means that a Lone Parent working 40 hours a week for minimum wage will still be subject to having their UC sanctioned. What a way to cleanse Lone Parents from Society...starve them out, then there will only be 'respectable' people! And as the conditionality level for UC Sanctions is set at precisely £1 a week OVER what minimum wage for 40 hours work is - just HOW MANY Lone Parents will be affected by this rule??!!