To think every SAHM, low hour PT worker and carer should read this?

[Peachy]

Well i am not but it matters to you so you must

here

Changes to system WRT worker hours

have a thread in chat and don;t want a debate, or at least won't participate iun one as petrified as we will now certianly lose our home and not up to taking flak. But if it affects you, you need to know.

I care for my 4 (including the one neglected by someone else with SN) and for my DH and both me and my husband have been working since our teen.
AND we both have socially responsible jobs.

Do I win?

Anyhooooo....agree with me, disagree with me whatevs, if you see me on this thread before this evening you have permission to kick my arse.

I have housework to do. The place is a messs.

see its so messy it deserved an extra 's'

How is responding to this:

least of all people who are simply unable to grasp the basics because they know it all, have seen it all, have various members of the family who have disabilities but still work, whatever.

with:

err my mum was carer for my dad who could not sit up, feed himself, wipe his bum. he obviously did not work. DP has Crohns & hold down a socially responsible job.

and you dont think i have anything to contribute to the debate?

& you say to me "whatever".

trying to win?

Difference is simple TheReal, can you honestly not see the differene between being a carer in disability terms and between being a standard parent?

Because quite apart from the choice bit, here's a hint:

If you are still expecting to be checking your ds has wiped his bum, refusing to allow him to play out and having little sleep because of caring when they are 18, you could perhaps be advised to look into it. That's not quite average. If you are no less tired now than when ytour child was 6 weeks old- well what exactly are you supposed to do? I went back to work when the older boys were 9 weeks old each (oops sorry for challenging idea only had kids for tax credits, damn me by being too old ) and it was an absolute killer but 3 weeks earlier and I'd have been asleep at my desk.

people talk about childcare etc- well, that's an issue for all aprents but if nobody wants to take your child on, it's different. More so: whilst I think the idea of a 12 year old alone after school is sad full stop, if you are still having that concern when your offspring is 35 and childcare has long ceased- yes, well, quite.

'so does every parent save to govt money by not putting their own child in care?'

Care costs about £2k a week all in for a severely disabled child; and as long as childcare isn't available at an affordable rate (s in, less than parent earns) then it's a mute point. that economic argument people like to make- if it's not there, it's not there? yes, that: take your own advice.

SSD advised us that if violent ds1 assaulted a carer we would be held liable: he would eventually do that so our options there are nil.

As for socially responsible job- yes, define please? Dh is electronics specialist; does that count? specialises in stage and effects lighting. My field is autism and the third sector. Which one counts then?

Surely it goes without saying that carers do an amazing job and save the state millions?
Surely it goes without saying that they need to be supported and not forced to work as they are already working full time?

Surely it goes without saying that the Govt needs to focus it's efforts instead on the Jeremy Kyle types who think the world owes them a living?

i did not say it was. i was reponding to OhDo's "Yes" to "so does every parent save to govt money by not putting their own child in care?"

As for socially responsible job- yes, define please? see previous post on this

Thats the point though Harry it won't discriminate between the "deserving and undeserving poor"

Sledgehammer to crack a nut?

Unless your Dh applies for DLA and is accepted then I don't think that's much of an argument- crohns can vary from very serious indeed to controlled, and I can't see how controlled crohns equates to someone such as ds3 who can;t be understood by many people, has no concentration to speak of and is autistic. Or ds1 who is aggressive and has ASD also.

If your dh's Crohns worsens though I will of course be at the front of the queue fighting for his rights under the disability heading though, absolutely. I hope that never happens because you will be amazed what it is like out here in carer world. Assuming you are anything like my age it's certainly a different world as regards expectation to work than when my mother was raising me- not arguing that is bad, just making a statement. Indeed, it's very different now from 5 years ago in terms of general humanity or lack of.

And now I must go make Christmas cards with ds3.

does anyone know any undeserving poor?

i know 2

HarryHill never on Mumsnet no. On Mumsnet the fact that most of us worked, many of us have degrees and above, many would like to work are counted inadmissable evidence for people suffering an empathy deficit.

I was responding to "Surely it goes without saying that the Govt needs to focus it's efforts instead on the Jeremy Kyle types who think the world owes them a living?"

Surely it goes without saying that carers do an amazing job and save the state millions?
Surely it goes without saying that they need to be supported and not forced to work as they are already working full time?

I wish it did go without saying, sadly as this thread has proved, it doesn't

so what i have learnt from this is:

my DP is not ill enough to count (yes like you'd know) & my dad does not fit with what you want so lets just ignore him other than to say i am making it a competition.

then bugger off.

well id better go too. all the best.

I have met 2 famillies in my years where I thought they could easily change their lives: bear in mind I worked in that environment so actually got to know the real stories, and yet only two.

But I don't think the children were undeserving poor: in my mind a child is always a deserving (I get slated for that on here too but will not change that view). As such I would not want the children's life chances reduced by heavy penalties on the parents; stats show repeatedly that does happen in terms of life, health and education outcomes.

Would I have a problem with that person being made to do voluntary work in school hours, no although as was a volunteer manager when I met them I would not have taken them on for all the tea in Waitrose, my clients needed reliability and some measure of wanting to be there. Especially as both the fathers were aggressive, not exactly a wide population to judge by but still.

And they would have both been unemployable anyway, not just from their attitudes (it's amazing how much you know about people's lives when you live in a small town and your Dad is a Manager at a main employer...) but sheer lack of references; triple that in recent job markets, especially with job news out today.

Would you want to hire someone whose claim to fame is 5 years on his arse and a large baseball bat? no, me neither. So it comes down to support kids to do better or not.

dawndonna and huntycat, you both don't need to justufy your positions to anyone, so please don't get angry, this thread might actually come up with some suggestions as to what you could try to do eg.writing to your MP, etc.

there are some posters here who will nit pick and tell you that because of their personnel situation they can tell you how to live your life and thats just bollocks as we all know, so try to ignore them if you can

I never said he was: just there was not enough info from a single dx name, and that if he was I would fight his corner too.

Someone is only reading what they wish. Again.

However should your DH's condition worsen I will no doubt still be here on MN offering advice and DLA support. And deliberately forgetting user names in the name of offering high level support.

I tried writing to my Labour MP; three e-mails of oh that sounds hard anmd him writing to Maria Miller resulting in a letter from me saying that basically I had 2 years so get ds1 and ds3 sorted, presumably cured.

Hahahahahahaha

I sent this to Tilly as I screwed up what I meant to say and wanted to say sorry.

I am aware that my post to you came over in completely the wrong way, for which I apologise.

What I meant to say was- and this might come out wrong as well so if so, please just assume I am trying to be nice which I am.

Anyway I meant to say that a diagnosis alone and a name, so crohns as indeed many other diagnoses, is not enough to make a judgement about entitlement, if your DH an work then chances are he does not need to have benefits (though if DLA would significantly help him really you should consider it- better in work with a small claim than out and claiming a lot). Should his condition deteriorate then I would be more than happy to offer help with the DLA forms as they are difficult, stressful in the extreme and making that jump from 'ill but coping' to disabled is extremely stressful in the extreme and I do understand that. Indeed I might understand more than you think, because whilst the boys needs are absolute and involve special needs units, DH has had some really severe health issues over the years that almost took his life and have led to lifelong medication, yet does not give in or claim. I think he is right not to, though I wish there were a level between 'fully disabled and claiming' and 'completely well' that allowed for him to be able to manage his health better.

Anyway sorry for the offence given.

people suffering an empathy deficit where as i received load of emphathy...oh wait...no ...i got bugger all none except you peachy.

i hope my two lazy benefit dependant relatives fail their ATOS because it will make their lives better. Equally sorry for anyone who suffers unfairly.

TillyMinto - I am sympathetic to your DH's Crohns disease. I am sure it is hard for him to work as hard as he does - but the fact that he is able to continue working, and hasn't been sacked for taking too much time off sick, or having to go home halfway through a shift because of his disability is a different situation to, say, someone with asd trying to hold down a job.

Your Dad, for example - would he have been able to hold down a job? No? yet there is a high chance that if he had failed the ATOSsers test, he would have been expected to work FT or face benefit sanctions. We are talking about people that are likely to be unable to hold down a FT job being expected to take one because they no longer meet ATOSsers 'criteria' of disability.

I do know some 'undeserving poor', my next door neighbour, for one - her dc are 16yo, 14yo and 12yo - she hasn't worked since they were born, and has no intention of doing so either. She is currently on JSA, and spends her days drinking and watching TV very loudly. Most poor people I know are NOT like that though.

Despite all my own personal difficulties, I have worked for 4 out of the last 7 years. I am currently unemployed yet again, purely due to the fact that my SN childcare fell apart, due to the SN childminder being unable to deal with a 13yo with asd that is taller than her, and cannot be strapped into a pushchair when having a meltdown. I DO want to work - but due to my own medical issues, I am unable to work FT. I want a job that pays enough to cover my BASIC NEEDS, and SN childcare, and is around 22.5-25 hrs a week, which is all I can medically manage. That job just doesn't exist. Without state help, I cannot cover my basic needs.