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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think every SAHM, low hour PT worker and carer should read this?

999 replies

Peachy · 10/11/2011 19:41

Well i am not but it matters to you so you must

here

Changes to system WRT worker hours

have a thread in chat and don;t want a debate, or at least won't participate iun one as petrified as we will now certianly lose our home and not up to taking flak. But if it affects you, you need to know.

OP posts:
ReindeerBollocks · 13/11/2011 17:03

FWIW I do believe that the small percentage of this country earning over 100K are being taxed enough. I don't believe taxing higher earners will help as it will lead to resentment.

There are other ways I would propose but I've got to cook dinner so I might be back later.

Alouisee · 13/11/2011 17:03

Bakelite - Nursing is a very important job but it can be done by many people which makes it less well paid than some sectors. When a job can only be done by a very few people it makes it highly paid.

fatfleur · 13/11/2011 17:04

Of course nurses should be paid more, dear lord.

Bakelitebelle · 13/11/2011 17:04

I get really pissed off with the assumption that the only people who know the meaning of hard work are the rich. And therefore they should pay less tax because they are essentially saints who keep this country afloat. What a pile of crap. Like that dickhead on Question Time last week who said that only business people contribute to the economy and public sector workers just deplete the economy. It is a cock-eyed way of looking at life that comes from having too much cash and a poor level of intelligence

KalSkirata · 13/11/2011 17:04

my friend is a full time carer Voidka. Not only is it 24/7, her child requires oxygen, suctioning and rescusitation. I reckon thats pretty stressful. And she has been doing it 24 years. With no breaks now her child is an adult and not at school.

Clossaintjacques · 13/11/2011 17:05

So nurses get a raw deal so everyone else should get a raw deal too...great sense

KalSkirata · 13/11/2011 17:05

Tories dont seem to be moving very fast to do anything about the 50% tax band anyhow.

twinklytroll · 13/11/2011 17:06

No fat I have not missed he point. You are saying that I am jealous of your wealth. I am not.

You are disagreeing with me about essentials and child benefit. I don't see how you can claim that your child benefit goes on essentials that you could not have otherwise . If that is the case how are the rest of us managing ? In my view an expensive mortgage, school fees and private health are not essentials. Again I don't hate those things, I have had a high mortgage and private health.

You say that if I wanted more money I could go out and earn it, yes I could. I don't want to, we manage quite fine on the money we have as a family meeting both our luxuries and essentials.

The fact that I don't want to earn more money does not make me a workshy feckless waster. It just means some things are more important to me than money.

If I have still missed your point please clarify.

Lookattheears · 13/11/2011 17:06

Hardly Bakelite. People are suggesting we should pay even more tax.

fatfleur · 13/11/2011 17:06

I'm happy to subsidise carers, that is something totally different. kal

fatfleur · 13/11/2011 17:07

Twinkly You appear to be jealous of high earners percieved wealth, that is totally different.

Lookattheears · 13/11/2011 17:07

Ditto fatfleur

No one has said any differently.

Clossaintjacques · 13/11/2011 17:07

I get really pissed off with the assumption that the only people who know the meaning of hard work are the rich. And therefore they should pay less tax because they are essentially saints who keep this country afloat.

No one has said we should pay less tax we have just had a 10% hike and we're not complaining about that. We are saying if there were further hikes many of us would leave.

Mandy2003 · 13/11/2011 17:08

I used to work in an environment where most people in my workplace earned between £50,000 and £500,000 per year. I didn't - I was support staff. But even so, this was the 1980s and I found an old payslip that showed my annual salary - £12,000pa. I would get nowhere near this doing the same job now, as I wouldn't be in the City of London.

But I used to look at most of these guys in the office and think "What difference would it make if they weren't doing that job?" None, I concluded. So I went to work with disabled children instead where the job you did actually counted.

I'd just like to ask a provocative question Lookattheears - what difference would it make to either society or individuals if your DH was not doing his (what sounds to me horrendous) job?

twinklytroll · 13/11/2011 17:09

I haven't even said that I want the tax rate increasing , I have just said that there are people willing to pay more tax. I am one of them as is my dp. I also understand that financially it may not make sense to means test child benefit so perhaps those of us on higher incomes and I include myself in that should be encouraged not to claim of we don't need to.

I have nothing against business, along wig public sector workers you play a vital role in society.

fatfleur · 13/11/2011 17:09

Fine if you choose to live that way as long as you are not topping up your choice with public funds. Smile

And what do you suggest people who wish to downsize do with theie unsellable house? Its oh so simple.

Clossaintjacques · 13/11/2011 17:11

Well for a start if high earners were not doing their jobs we would have even less money for essential services.

It's such a warped view to think that high earners should get pay cuts and I hear people say this all the time. Don't people realise if the high earners earned less money they would be paying less tax and there most definitely be no pot for tax credits!!

Original poster
Peachy · 13/11/2011 17:12

First, go to uni for 7 years' Well, I've been in education for the past 7, admittedly for the past 3 part time: loved every damned second so THAT part I would adore tbh. nothing I like better than a punishing essay and impossible deadline.

I don't think 60% tax is a good idea but I can see so many things... last year my home town didn;t get a Christmas tree so the council could run a specific charitable event: except the 'great and good' protested until the tree was given, I wonder what event was cut? We've already lost respite as it's been allocated to a voluntary agency- the same Mums who hounded us for eyars thinking that SN kids didn't deserve to be at their school are on the committee- not a hope!.

People say what about my taxes: well, what about ours? I started work at 18, DH 15... there has not been a break in us paying NI and Income Tax since (a few spells of just one paying)- don't we have a say as well? because if I try and have one I get shouted down by people too dumb to understand that we pay taxes, because they are set on creating a stereotype to yell at. Well, we are not it. Sorry.

OP posts:
KalSkirata · 13/11/2011 17:12

the OP's point fatfleur, is that the Govt proposals appear to be not only a giant hammer/or large brush (pick your metaphor) which will affect Carers, disabled people etc, it will hammer the hard working poor. Where are these second jobs? n some areas, where are the first jobs. You cant reduce people to starvation without offering an alternative, which is WORK.
I cant recall how the thread gpt onto the wealthy and their tax but these proposals dont make sense when there are no jobs, or second jobs. When NMW is too low to survive on, so low the taxpayer has to subsidise it.
Many people will be heaved off DLA. 20% of genuine claiments in fact. Those caring for them will lose Carers Allowance and therefore will be forced into work (ift hey can find any). Leaving their disabled familiy members where exactly?

Original poster
Peachy · 13/11/2011 17:13

'And what do you suggest people who wish to downsize do with theie unsellable house? Its oh so simple.

Keep trying: we managed it eventually, put me through university in the end (had to sell house anyway but heck, if you can't work, get some study time in I say).

OP posts:
twinklytroll · 13/11/2011 17:14

But fat I am not jealous. I understand that if if you are someone who is very motivated by money that may be hard to understand . As long as we have a roof over our heads, food of the table and money for days out I am happy.

That is not a judgement, I no not think I am better than someone who wants to earn a high wage. Society needs high earners to find the schools , hospitals etc. It also needs people like me who are not overly driven by money to work in the schools and hospitals.

Most of the people I went to unti with are now lawyers, bankers etc and earn enough to be paying the 50% tax rate. If I was seething with jealousy those friendships would have not remained. I just made different choices.

Clossaintjacques · 13/11/2011 17:15

You know if there weren't so many people abusing benefits and Disability allowance it would be so easy to ensure those that need it got it.

This is not the governments fault it is in fact the fault of the thousands of people that have abused the system for generations.

Original poster
Peachy · 13/11/2011 17:15

Absolutely Twinkly

Except most people I went to school with are now unemployed, dead or drunk but there you go.

OP posts:
fatfleur · 13/11/2011 17:15

This reply has been deleted

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twinklytroll · 13/11/2011 17:16

In the past I have needed to claim benefits. For a number of years now I have not claimed a single penny on benefits either tax credits ( although I assume we earn too much now anyway) or child benefit. So no one pays for my choices unless you are going to count my salary which is paid for by the tax payer.