To think every SAHM, low hour PT worker and carer should read this?

[Peachy]

Well i am not but it matters to you so you must

here

Changes to system WRT worker hours

have a thread in chat and don;t want a debate, or at least won't participate iun one as petrified as we will now certianly lose our home and not up to taking flak. But if it affects you, you need to know.

And how many of our hero's who fought for our freedom would ever have fought for a freedom to live off other people, to never work and to have child after child the taxpayer has to pay for?

The ill, the elderly and the disabled should all be supported, no question.

But every family that chooses not to work, that chooses to have more children than they can afford, takes money from those who need it. They also help sway public opinion so that there is less compassion and understanding.
If you want to blame anyone for what is happening, look at those who have scrounged and bludged off everyone else for so long and so deeply that we are now in this hideous welfare mess.

So are you saying that somebody like myself, who found out at the twenty week scan that my ds has a disability, should not have continued with the pregnancy in order not to be a burden to the welfare state? When I could feel him kicking, and when he is now a beautiful, much loved boy?

Courts step in to save vulnerable from cuts

Today's Independent.

Emkana plenty of people do just that. Maybe for less altruistic reasons than saving the burden on the state purse.

So are you saying that somebody like myself, who found out at the twenty week scan that my ds has a disability, should not have continued with the pregnancy in order not to be a burden to the welfare state? When I could feel him kicking, and when he is now a beautiful, much loved boy?

Hardly.

For the record, I had no scans in two of my pregnancies because I would have carried to term regardless. But I support 100% those who choose rto scan and to terminate.

But I think actively conceiving a child who is very likely to have a disability is very different. And no, I still can't understand doing that.

That is the point though

"The ill, the elderly and the disabled should all be supported, no question"

they won't be though!

People have posted there circs, and ill and disabled people are being signed fit for work. How can someone having 500 fits a year be deemed fit for FT work?

Those that are for the changes are just posting monologues, you aren't reading or responding to what is actually happening and being posted.

Indeed Alou, shame they've now withdrawn legal aid for such cases eh?

There are a great many choices I can never understand people making- doesn't matter, I don't need to. My role, in what I do and as a taxpayer is to make sure there is a safety net to catch them when they fall IF they do. Even if I disapprove of the aprents, and you know I worked in the charity sector so no matter how small one's judgy pants there are times- there's always a child there that is worth caring for and supporting so that they can develop and go on to be their best: poverty increases costs for healthcare services, housing, education as well as state benefits- alienating famllies by pushing them outside the system (and the ones this change will affect are not those not working but those working low income or part time (indeed, one parent FT one parent pt)- hardly the worst offenders in our society!) is a very real cause of societal problems: make children show them they are not valuable to the country and they will repay it tenfold as they grow.

Lookatthe that's such an ironic thing youmposted about our heroes

My friend has been turned down again by ATOS despite using a wheelchair and having PTSD from injuries acquired in armed service.

He, by the way, after staying with us, thinks dh and I are 'pretty fantastic to cope as we do'.

So, my kids are highly likely to have children with Aspergers. They shouldn't have children?
Thing is, there are so many scientists, mathematicians, artists who have contributed a great deal to society, many, many with AS. My kids will be a help to society, as will theirs.

So sometimes having a child with a disability, knowing that may happen, is a positive option and a positive contribution, even if they will need help from society, be it financial or otherwise.

Absolutely Dawn- even Simon baron-Cohen agrees that if we wipe out ASD we also running the risk of wiping out many of our most brilliant thinkers and scientists.

Yeah but on the other side people work, get ill, still work, pay taxes.

DP has Crohns.
DD became paralysed from a brain tumour.

Not really sure why either of them should pay taxes for someone to choose to work PT (not someone who cannot due to illness) to look after children who are teenagers and be subsidised by the state or have child number 3 on benefits.

i dont think millions of people died in the wars for that

My parents worked when me and my sister were teenagers. We beat the shit out of each other quite often (house was damaged and there were a couple of A&E visits) and hardly did our homework when we were unsupervised.

As LP I will be at home for them after school to make sure they don't run riot. I want my children to do well at school, not fanny about. By the time they are teens it is quite likely I will have no family who can help me (my mum will be in her 70's by then).

Obviously working p/t will mean my life is a total doss, the house, car, garden, maintenance, house admin, kids illnesses, kids traumas, my illnesses, errands, shopping etc will all be sorted out by the magic pixies while I sit on my arse eating sweets. I can't wait

So Meglet, because you would like the luxury of being at home every day for children old enough to manage by themselves, everyone else should pay?

So the thousands of families with latchkey teens, who work because they have to to pay their bills, they can all just carry on working to pay for you to bum about so your precious teens don't have to let themselves in when they get home?

Fecking priceless.

Thank god the Tories aren't going to let you.

And they won't run riot if you bring them up to have respect for possessions and you.

Well then, I had better warn many of my friends who both have to work full time just to survive where we live, yet don't qualify for benefits because they earn just too much that their children are headed off down the pan pronto, and unfortunately there is nothing they can do about it. They have no choice but to work.

"the house, car, garden, maintenance, house admin, kids illnesses, kids traumas, my illnesses, errands, shopping etc will all be sorted out by the magic pixies"

Funny how those that work full time to pay for the children they chose to have still have to find time to do all those things. If everybody had the sense of entitlement that they should work the bare minimum so that they had time for other things the state would have no benefits system as it simply wouldnt be able to afford it.

High school children are more than capable of coming home and starting homework, if not then I would be questionning why.

Not so long ago in Sweden (and in other countries too maybe but I'm not sure) disabled people were steralised so that they couldn't have children who were likely to be disabled.

what would you have done in my situation? All of my children were likely to be disabled. DS1 seems to be fine at the moment. DS2 and DS3 have physical disabilities. Not sure about DC4 yet. Should I not have had any of them?

We simply don't have enough money to fund the current provision though. To fund its spending the Government had to borrow nearly £150 billion last year, an almost unbelievable figure. There are too many people who stick their head in the sand and say I want my pension/benefits no matter if it bankrupts the state.

I am a married SAHM not on benefits. BUT I think lone parents should be able to SAH till school age (7 preferably) and then work school hours. I am sick of them being stigmatised. They very often do the work of both parents. Parenting is a f/t job in itself. I have 5DC and it is never ending. And that is WITH a partner so I take my hat off to LP.

When unpaid caring is undervalued and people are only valued by how much money they earn (or how much they take off the state) you end up devaluing people like the disabled, elderly etc.

I also think that somebody going through the agony of finding out their baby has a disability should not have to take finacnces into the equation-that would be terrible. I speak from experience here sadly but in my case it wasn't compatible with life. But i know the horror of decisions, tests etc.

'High school children are more than capable of coming home and starting homework'

Have you got a high school child?

'My parents worked when me and my sister were teenagers. We beat the shit out of each other quite often (house was damaged and there were a couple of A&E visits) and hardly did our homework when we were unsupervised.

As LP I will be at home for them after school to make sure they don't run riot. I want my children to do well at school, not fanny about. By the time they are teens it is quite likely I will have no family who can help me (my mum will be in her 70's by then).'

I agree. My parents both worked when we were teens and my mum regrets it but she had no choice. She said that was the time she was needed most (she was a SAHM till we were about 9ish). Me and sibs were as you described in your post and we got up to allsorts but we were on our own in evenings and nights too as they both worked shifts.

We have 2 children, we can afford 2 children and for me to stay at home. Dh is self employed, he has been since he was 22. We've had feast and famine in our house over the years. We've never been entitled to anything in the way Of benefit payments. We spend a large part of our income on life insurance and assurance, healthcare provision, critical illness cover. We would need to pay for more if we had more children. Therefore it seemed reasonable and sensible to stop after two children.

I sometimes feel that there are very few of us who actually feel responsible for providing for our families while huge numbers of people are very happy to rely on state benefits. I know one family who came back from living abroad with three children, things had gone wrong for them overseas so they came back. Within 6 weeks they had a council house, school places, healthcare and tax credits. She was the first to kick off, noisily, when TC were reduced.

Actually there is never such a thing as a lone parent. It takes two to make a baby so unless the absent parent is dead it makes sense for that parent to pay for the resulting child. If they can't afford to pay for the ones they already have then compulsory sterilisation so that they can't produce any more might be a sensible option.

I really think that SAHPs are undervalued. My parents work till 7-8 every night and I can't help but feel sorry for my brother who is 14 and gets home from school to an empty house is on his own for hours sometimes even making his own tea and eating on his own. No doubt some people will think this is good as my parents aren't being a drain on society.