To think that nurses who choose to strike over pensions will not get any sympathy from the general public??

[McQueasy]

Unison have voted to strike on the 30th, this means that nurses within that union have the choice to participate. As a result of this the NHS may have to operate as an 'emergency only' service for the day. Cancelling routine work, clinics, operations etc.

The governments pension proposals are ridiculous, in essence the average worker will pay between £50-£200 a month more towards their pension in what is realistically a levy. They will not see a penny of that when they retire (if they ever are allowed to retire as the age or retirement gets pushed back and back)

However, as operations, clinics and routine work is cancelled in an already stretched system, I cant help but think that public sympathy for this strike will be minimal.

Responding to the OP, haven't read the rest of the thread.

I'd rather nurses went on strike to protect their pensions than left the profession. I'd rather nurses went on strike to protect their pensions than people were put off entering the profession. I'd rather nurses went on strike to protect their pensions than they ended up in poverty in old age.

If the politicians and the public won't protect their pensions, then they have to do it themselves.

If you are paying more in taxes, then so will everyone else.
The additional payments the govt wants us to make to our pension are not to fund the pension scheme, they will go direct to the treasury to reduce the deficit.
So a scheme which already generates money for the govt is asking nhs workers to pay more.

Are the NHS and other public sector pension schemes taxed like the private pension funds are?

This is not about individuals Molly, it's not about how much money you or I have individually. This is about public policy.

People want to boil it all down to an individual scale, which is understandable as it makes it easy to relate to. However, it doesn't make it right.

Shelley, did you read the post about the NHS pension scheme contributing money every year to the treasury? Last year £2billion!

fair enough - take my post and change 'you' for 'public sector workers' and 'I' for 'the rest of us'

"The additional payments the govt wants us to make to our pension are not to fund the pension scheme, they will go direct to the treasury to reduce the deficit. "

That's a red herring, unless you expect a pension fund to permanently operate as a ponzi scheme where the contributions of others will fund the pensions of those already retired? The current surplus is known to be too little to fund the future pensions of its members so it needs further funding from either increased contributions or cash from tax payers.

The NHS scheme was changed in 2008. Employee contributions increased. The normal retirement age increased. These changes were negotiated between employers and unions representing the range of healthcare workers. The changes made the 2008 scheme fair, affordable and sustainable. Further changes are not necessary.

Are taxes really that high? My understanding is that we are taxed less than some other countries in Europe. I really do not believe that high taxes are behind the issues in private sector pensions.

The real trouble is: Todays generation is paying for todays pensioners. There are going to be more pensioners than workers shortly. Therefore the workers will be taxed more in order to subsidise pensioners.

Subsidise - not a careless word nor one designed to inflame. Each generation is subsidising the previous one. Thats is the way our welfare state was set up.

In other countries, Singapore is one very good example. They have similar, but not the same, state systems BUT the pension contributions go into YOUR pension pot and accrue in a similar way to our perception of private pensions.

That would leave the question in our country of who 'keeps' those who have never worked for some reason (not an attack for those on benefits, but we do have a previous generation of women, now elderly, who have dedicated their lives to being home-makers).

The baby-boomer generation have exacerbated this mess. They had very short working lives, frequently retiring at 50 or 55, longevity now pushing them to living until their 90s, very enhanced final salary pensions. They were also the ones who pushed up house prices beyond affordability for the generation under me. Jeremy did a very good article on this recently.

We can blame immigration all we like but in truth - and no one likes the raw truth - advances in medicine and reduced families means people are living longer. The whole demographic of the population is shifting. It wont be much longer before the majority of the population are pensioners. The bloody labour party mantra of cradle-to-grave has lulled a generation into a false sense of security that they didnt need private pensions etc - the state would do all that for them. The state simply cant afford it now.

Im not an economist (clearly!) but even I can see something has to give. The country cannot keep on dishing out money the way it is.

My kids - and yours too - will be working a lot longer for much less reward. The golden prosperous era has gone.

I do realise the above is quite a simplistic view, as I say Im no economist.

*jeremy Paxman!¬

They have my sympathy for the cause, but I do not support strike action.

I do realise the above is quite a simplistic view, as I say Im no economist.

I think it's a great post, Trois.

I don't feel comfortable with the strike. Admitedly its partly selfish as I could go into labour that day and I fear it would put her life at risk. My life doesn't matter but her's does.

It is more than that thought I have never gone on strike and could never go on strike. I couldn't bring myself to put people at risk in order to strike.

I also think that's a great post troisgarcons.

We're a rich country. We can afford to support our population, pensioners included. I do not buy into the doom-laden predictions that it's all going to fall apart and we have to start selling off the family silver.

There is also the point that an ageing population is going to require alot of nursing!

If you had worked with nurses as long as me you would have zero sympathy anyway.

A lot of you on here would be amazed if I quoted some of the things nurses come out with. You dont know how lucky you are to survive hospital stays.

They have my full support too. The 2008 changes seem to have been forgotten by 'the rest of us'.

I think the current climate of denigrating public sector workers as lazy scroungers basically, according to some people, is fairly dangerous.

They government seems to be encouraging resentment and division between the public and private sector workers, it seems to distract nicely from dealing with basic bigger problems, like people having jobs that pay a living wage and where you are not worked to the grave with no quality life work balance.

the old divide and conquer, for a while at least.

Excellent point, Sfxmum.

They have my full support.

Wages in the public sector for the same jobs are much lower than the private sector - the pension scheme is the main perk that makes up for the low salary. You can't then turn round and tell everyone who's already been working for years at the lower salary that they're going to take away the reason they took the job in the first place, before they get to receive it. Pension contributions/pension rights are just part of the overall package. Just paid well in arrears.

MY OH works in the public sector (not NHS). He is regularly approached by private sector companies wanting to headhunt him for much higher salaries. He still works for the public sector because he has a v strong public service ethos ie he likes to feel he is serving and helping the public in his job. And financially, the pension is the big factor mitigating the lower salary. Take that away and he's been lied to, to get him to work for years at a far lower salary than he could have achieved elsewhere, in the same line of work.

There is also the point that an ageing population is going to require alot of nursing!

yes and that brings up another debate, who is going to provide it, who are these workers in social care? most people in that sector are not valued or well regarded, these days a great number of them are immigrants and I expect more so in the future, another clear debate on the realities of immigration will be needed

FGS, I have a friend who is a nurse working the nightshift on a geriatric ward. I cannot imagine a more challenging, exhausting job, he and his colleagues are absolutely amazing. These are people who are really working at the sharp end and deserve ALL our support.

Its really quite simple.

I do not want to pay MORE money over a LONGER period, to get LESS.

Who would????