To think that nurses who choose to strike over pensions will not get any sympathy from the general public??

[McQueasy]

Unison have voted to strike on the 30th, this means that nurses within that union have the choice to participate. As a result of this the NHS may have to operate as an 'emergency only' service for the day. Cancelling routine work, clinics, operations etc.

The governments pension proposals are ridiculous, in essence the average worker will pay between £50-£200 a month more towards their pension in what is realistically a levy. They will not see a penny of that when they retire (if they ever are allowed to retire as the age or retirement gets pushed back and back)

However, as operations, clinics and routine work is cancelled in an already stretched system, I cant help but think that public sympathy for this strike will be minimal.

But any concessions given to public sector pensions now will affect everyone else in the country negatively - is that really fair?

I will support the nurses - and will be out waving myown teaching placard anyway, I presume!

One day to teach our students and our patients that we want to be able to care for them to the very best of our ability for the rest of our careers, and be treated fairly for it?

I expect my students to be proud of me in the future.

Its not a concession, they are not giving us anything. They are taking away agreed T&C's that people have been paying into for x amount of years. Pensions were already reformed 3 years ago.

Molly - naff? I am happy to work to 60. You misread. I stated that I would not be able to do my job in my late 60's - I will be expected to do hard physical work until 68. Safety becomes an issue, but maybe you are happy to have 68 yr old firefighters climbing into burning buildings, elederly policeman chasing after young criminals or a 68 yr old doctor running from one end of a hospital to another to respond to you or your loved ones medical emergency.

They wo't get any sympathy because many people working in the private sector don't get a pension or have just had tehir scheme stoppe dor they have lost their job.

Most people will say, think yourself lucky you have a job and any pension at all.

Yep, let's all rush downwards eh.

Morebeta, I'm self employed and have a pension fund of 12.5 pence and I still want public service workers to get the decent pension that they have contributed to, about which they have formed legitimate expectations during their career.

But Ginger, terms and conditions of employment and benefits change all of the time, why is this any different? Its shit, its always shit when what people sign up for doesnt materialise but it happens all of the time. Why should I have to stump up for someone elses nice pension so they can retire at 60 when I'll have to push trolleys around Netto to make ends meet?

As I said before if the person is a health and safety risk then they would have to leave to medical grounds and find something else. IMO as long as soeone can still carry out their duties then age shouldnt come into it. FWIW my mum is far fitter than me, Im 31 and she is 63 and would probably breeze past me in a physical test.

YANBU. Yes I agree nurses are underpaid for what they do, and that it's hard work. But all of us mere mortals are feeling the effects of the recession and the cut backs. DH and I both work in the private sector - we haven't had any pay rises for 3 years and the other little perks we used to receive have gone - no overtime, no xmas do, and no subsidised pension schemes anymore to name a few. At the same time everything is getting more expensive (just in case anyone is wondering what I mean by 'feeling the effects'....).

In short, nurses are suffering but we all are. Nobody's going to step in and subsidise my life so what makes nurses different?

I don't think they will get much sympathy from the public, the unions appear to be making the same mistakes they made in the 1980s where they were comprehensively beaten by the Government. I suspect the same thing will happen again

And is it really clear that the economy and our shared interests will be served more by having public service pensioners with no spending power than it would be by a buoyant grey pound?

Nurses provide an essential service. We must attract and retain good nurses.

I agree they won't get much sympathy from the public though. "The Public" are entirely motivated by an "I'm allright jack" selfish atitude these days. If it's not more money in their own pockets to buy more crap, they aren't interested.

We've got the government we deserve, unfortunately.

Let's look at the impact of nurses striking..... Anyone know what it will look like? They will lose the public sympathy if anyone dies as a result of the strike.

If there is a deficit it needs to be made up. If not by those that want to benefit from the pension then by me as a tax payer and quite frankly I already pay enough taxes and my pension is going to be worth f all so my sympathy for their cause starts to wane when I think about all the ins and outs.

There are plenty of private sector employees who will see zilch out of their pension scheme because their employer went to the wall leaving a pension scheme with a huge deficit so perhaps the public sector need to just stop moaning........

Just to clarify- the strike is Public Sector. Who does that include?

NHS staff-yes
Teachers-yes (but not all the teachers unions were out in June)
Dinner-ladies

Transport workers?- will bus/train/underground staff be out on strike?
Police?
Fire Services?

This threatens to be the first of many by the sounds of things.

StuckForWords "it's not about having more money to buy crap", it's about making ends meet and being able to afford any pension contributions.

Stuckforwords - "im alright jack" selfish attitude - hmm that sounds familiar......

and agree with Towndon - I dont want money to buy anymore crap, I just want to make ends meet and maybe put the heating on when Im cold instead of limiting it to only when the kids are in.

So it is about wanting more money for yourself?

Nothing to do with the public policy considerations at all? The idea of attracting and retaining good healthcare professionals and other public sector workers in essential services, doesn't factor in to it?

The idea that as a large employer, the government should possibly be leading by example and treating it's staff well, is irrelevent?

The public sector workers are wanting money for themselves, aren't they?

"So it is about wanting more money for yourself?"

Yes, they are. And for good, public policy reasons, they should have it.

Molly are you aware that the NHS scheme pays more into the Treasury in contributions than it actually gets out. The surplus in 2010 was £2 billion! So you are not 'stumping up'.

Ginger - Im not aware of that, but tbh it doesnt change my opinion.

I'll be paying more taxes, so inadvertantly I will be stumping up in one way or another.

Molly, you get what you pay for. You want a well staffed healthcare service? You pay for it, as I do.

I begin to lose any sympathy as soon as some fuckwit starts trotting out 'race to the bottom' or 'rush downwards'.

How about reversing it entirely? If public sector employees accepted a private sector standard of pension, taxes could be reduced and hence private sector employees would be better able to fund their own contributions and increase their own retirement income. Because public sector employees aren't in favour of that, it is actually they who are encouraging a race to the bottom. Albeit the bottom is

Doesn't sound quite such a clever reposte now does it?

Do people really not see that expecting private sector employees to stump up more in taxes to fund public sector pensions is reducing the private sector's ability to fund their own pensions?

If public sector pensions could be funded to the point that public sector employees see fit, without it costing the rest of us more I'd be all for it. I don't begrudge anyone their pension but I'm not massively keen on paying more taxes to fund it, when my own pension's value has been decimated.

and you want a decent pension and to retire at 60? pay more for it, as I will have to