To think that nurses who choose to strike over pensions will not get any sympathy from the general public??

[McQueasy]

Unison have voted to strike on the 30th, this means that nurses within that union have the choice to participate. As a result of this the NHS may have to operate as an 'emergency only' service for the day. Cancelling routine work, clinics, operations etc.

The governments pension proposals are ridiculous, in essence the average worker will pay between £50-£200 a month more towards their pension in what is realistically a levy. They will not see a penny of that when they retire (if they ever are allowed to retire as the age or retirement gets pushed back and back)

However, as operations, clinics and routine work is cancelled in an already stretched system, I cant help but think that public sympathy for this strike will be minimal.

They have my full support....and always will.

A lower income due to the current economy, for starters.

I dont see why one job sector deems its self more worthy than another.

All the unions should co-ordinate and bring the country to a halt at one given time.

This dribble effect wont do any of us any favours.

On the other hand, we will all be in the same boat when we are 68. therefore why do teachers/nurse/armed forces etc deem themsleves to have the right to better pension entitlements than a binman or a miner or a scaffolder? A lot of the physical jobs will be difficult to do once you get to a certain age.

Troisgarcons, follow that argument to it's logical conclusion and everybody would be paid exactly the same. Would that work?

They will have my utmost support, teachers too. DH works in the public sector. With pay and recruitment freezes and thousands of redundancies planned, they're already earning less money in real terms, doing far more work on top of what's already around a 55hr+ week for 38hrs of pay and now his pension contributions are rising from what was 8% to 15% in the next couple of years, with his pension being worth less. And he has no right to strike so we're just putting up with it. It's not cuts, it's making life bloody impossible.

Yanbu. Sadly I think you are right. They will get much more than teachers though. People are very sympathetic until it affects them.

YABU. I'm happy to support them, and the teachers.

'A lower income due to the current economy'

Public sector workers have already experienced this, we are not immune. We have had our pay frozen while the cost of living continues to rise.

Troisgarcons, follow that argument to it's logical conclusion and everybody would be paid exactly the same. Would that work?

I cant see I implied that. I was more getting at we are all in the same boat with regard to retirement age and contributions; but several sectors seem to think they should have reduced retirement ages and enhanced pensions. That is where the inequality comes into play.

I'll use teaching as the example - much chatter in the staff room re the unfairness of it all and woe! how can they be expected to be fronting a class room at 68. But they dont give a thought about the TAs or LAs who frequently are assigned 1-2-1 with challenging pupils - teachers get a 60 minute slot then move on to the next group. TAs dont get PPA time ether - they have a straight 6 hour day and often have to use their lunch breaks. HiLTAS dont get anywhere near the same pay - and equal stress.

yabu - they have my 100% support

and for the record i work in the private sector

Trois, enhanced? What do you mean? I just want what I signed up for. The average NHS pension is £7,500.

As a nurse I've never striked and I'm not sure if I would now - it's a difficult question for me as patient care has always been my priority but as a profession we've accepted the pay freeze etc. and we are all aware of having to do our bit, just like the private sector. For the record dh works for a large company in the private sector and had a pay freeze several years ago. They have since had a fairly generous pay increase and also have other perks. As a nurse I don't expect perks but I did expect a good pension at the end of my working life. I would not have felt the same outrage if I had to pay more in to get the same amount at the end but to get less as a pension feels so wrong. We're being expected to pay for the financial sector's mistakes. We're not 'all in it together' - far from it.

They have support from me. They've only just finished overhauling the pension system to make people pay more in and unions agreed to it on the preimse that the public sector staff would only be shafted that fair amount Now however they want people to put more in and work for longer. Right now I'm a public sector member, my pay is lower then my in my private sector job (which was still under 25k but better then 21k after 10 years experience) but i thought of the long run and decided that though the pensions wasn't better then my private legal and general one and combined Bupa healthcare, the overall way of treating staff in terms of annual leave and sickness/maternity was better so it was a toss up and public won.

Now they want regale on what they agreed with the unions and shaft further? Anyone who still has a pension has my sympathy-personally i've stopped mine and am ISA-ing it. In the long run at least i know i'll get back what i put in! This also has another effect, most of my workforce are freezing their pensions, opting out and will collect back when they retire but not put any more in. They'll obviously get back only what they put in but if every public sector worker did this then the deficit would rise and there would be less money for pensions-state and public sector.

Trois, enhanced? What do you mean? I just want what I signed up for. The average NHS pension is £7,500.

Pensions now are 40/60ths. Public sector pensions are goingto 80ths. Im trying, ineptly so it seems to point out that *we8 will all be in the same boat with 80ths and one industry or sector cannot justifiably demand to keep the 60ths - that would be an enhanced pension.

The same rules must apply to all or else you get inequality.

And I still stand by this fractious one industry at a time going on srtrike won't have the power of all unions co-ordinating and bringing the country to a standstill.

As a rule, I am no advocate of striking. But there comes a time when enough is enough.

You do know that the increase in penson costs is not being put into the penson pts for the workers?

It is going in to a war chest to support the failing economy and any future monetary issues from the EU.

They would probably prefer to work but are beiong dragged along by the unions.

My contracted deal is 80ths.

I've been an HLTA and a teacher. I know which was harde, and which I would choose to go back to. (Teaching was harder and I would rathe be an HLTA in case it was ambiguous!)

However I do agree with you Trois. We all ought to be up-in-arms/worried about the changes for each other, not just for ourselves. I think this tends to be forgotten on both sides, the glee at the 'downfall' of the public sector is a little sickening, and the public sector oughtn't to forget the private sector. We shouldn't be so happy to rush downwards to avoid risking someone getting more than us, we all ought to be able to want and expect fair treatment.

YANBU

Ive had terms of employment and benefits packages changed because of the current economic climate, I also want what I signed up for frommy employer but it isnt going to happen. Everyone is going to have to pay more and work more to get less at some point.

"Everyone is going to have to pay more and work more to get less at some point."

Really? Politicians, bankers and most people on a six-figure salery probably won't.

Yes, public sector workers have had pay freezes. But why should they be the only ones immune to pension cutbacks?

I work for NHS and have done for 20+ years.
I've always believed (in the past) that essential services ie police/fire service/NHS shouldn't strike but now I'm not so sure.

Most NHS workers (and other services) give way over their working hours as 'good faith'. Even after patient direct contact there is stacks of paperwork that has to be done.This is what alot of the general public don't see.

We have been told if we choose to strike it will be as a days unpaid leave.And if the teachers strike then I would have to take a day off anyway.

At least there has been enough notice given, everyone is aware of the date. (On the June 30th teachers strike we were given letters at the end of school on the Wednesday confirming strike action on the next day)

The people who are going to be most affected are the patients who have booked operations who won't know if it's cancelled or going ahead, depending on if the strike is called off or how many staff will be there. Though I would hope that A&E would still be able to provide some service.

Because we need nurses and teachers, Towndon?

And most saw a decent pension as the perk of a relatively poor salary.

and I also think the argument of not wanting to have a 60 year old care for you / I cant be doing this physical job when Im 60 is a bit naff. Sorry

IMO if you are fit to do the job then the age doesnt matter, and if you dont feel fit to do the job then you should, like the rest of us, find one you can do.

Sorry if I sound harsh but it pisses me off that I'll probably have to work until I drop dead.