Teachers - you're 'avvin a laugh aintcha?

[mholdall]

Kids recently had a week off - half term. They were back this week then, guess what - teacher training day. Seriously, what I want to know is this: is there ANY other job in the country where you get:

• 13 paid weeks holiday a year
• Good pay
• Good pension (believe me, you do compared to people who do proper jobs in private sector - if you dont believe me, try it)
• And yet you still need these extra days to do some training. Training for what, exactly? Seriously, for what???? And how am I, as a parent, supposed to factor childcare in here.
• Oh, and you still do nothing but moan about pay, pensions etc
• Rant over

- Teachers take themselves way, way too seriously - you teach kids ffs, it's not life or death. Get over it.

Cheap shot. I'm am hoping that you haven't been reading my posts because if you have... well... I have no words.

I think the majority of parents would want teachers to take themselves and the job seriously. I am grateful that my DCs got a good education and exam results without teachers saying 'don't fuss-it's not life and death'.

Actually I think teaching is 'life or death' if you think long term.

I was involved in a situation last year that WAS life and death. Luckily we were able to convince the girl in question to finally go to the police about her violent father. In my 14 years teaching, I have helped students through the deaths of two of their friends. Currently one of my students is dealing with the fact that her dad is suspected if murdering her mum.

Maybe it's not life and death in the same way as firefighters or paramedics but you can't say "it's not life and death" quite so glibly.

And I for one think there's nothing wrong with taking my job seriously.

It can be life and death on playground duty-it only takes a bad fall off a climbing frame and the teacher is the one to deal with it.

Norfolk, one of my sixth formers died a few years ago - a beautiful lad with a bright future ahead of him. Utterly devastating. I had just gone off on maternity leave, and I am ashamed to admit that I was relieved not to be in school at the time. Having to deal with the grief of the students who relied on me as an adult, on top of my own would have been almost unbearable. I really feel for you right now.

Whoever said 'you teach kids ffs' has only scraped the tip of the iceberg of the job. We teach them our subject, yes, but we also form relationships with them, care about them and support them in growing up into the young adults they have the potential to be. And sometimes that means dealing with horrible situations that go well out of our remit as 'maths teacher'. It's not something that I really thought about when I decided to train as a teacher, so I can see why it might be something that the 'you're only a teacher' brigade might not have considered.

I had a little girl in my class in Y3 and Y6, so knew her very well - she had a genetic disease and needed a bone marrow transplant, from which she never recovered. I went to see her in hospital and spoke to her on the phone the day before she died. Her mother left her and her father when she was born, because she couldn't cope with her dd's illness. That kind of thing is heartbreaking.

The worst was a child who I had in my class in Y2, Y3 and Y6, so again I knew him very well as a child. He ended up stabbing his grandmother to death, and is in a secure mental hospital. I think that affected me even more than the death of the little girl, I kept thinking was there something I could have taught him differently as a child - mad, I know, but as a primary school teacher you feel very responsible for developing children's morality and sense of right or wrong, and then at 11 all of a sudden they are off, and there's nothing you can do if it goes off the rails from there. So you go from being very involved, particularly in a family with lots of problems, to being totally out of the situation.

EvilTwins, noblegiraffe, Feenie

Thanks, NorfolkNChance

Thanks, Norfolk.

The self harmers, the girl who disclosed sexual abuse to me, the girl who has been living with her mentally unstable mum, the girl who died of a brain hemmorrage suddenly one weekend, the girl who got meningitus and lost her legs and fingers the last day of her mock exams, the boy who commited suicide for absolutely no known reason anyone ever found, the numerous boys who have died in road accidents...all of them have left a mark with me.

The real success stories, the ones who, from bottom sets went on to get decent GCSE grades, the ones who got into medicine, the ones where i knew I had taught them everything I could and they would now know more than me. The kids who made me laugh and the ones who fill me with pride.

This is so much more than 'just teaching kids'

I have been teaching 17 years, in that time I have been threatened by both students and their parents. I have been attacked by a Y11 who hit me in the head from behind and I have been threatened with gang rape. I have had students die and helped pick up the pieces.
I have helped thousands of young people get through exams and go out into the world, doing a job I mostly love.
Under the new scheme I will lose 160,000 and have to work until I am 68. As it is for the time I work I only get paid for 32.5 hours, which I have done by Thursday breaktime. We get paid in August but not for August. And if you?re envious of our holidays? then you too can become a teacher, you had the choice.
Yes I could change professions, thousands of us do every year, but likewise I can expect my government to play fair. They have changed the rules, they won?t release the data needed to enter into a grown up discussion, and two old Etonians with personal fortunes, one of whom inherits a title tell me my hard work means nothing. Support us or not that?s your choice.

Excellent post faeriefruitcake . Non-teachers often don't realise the other roles we play, I think. THat's not a criticism, why would they?

I'd also like to make a point about A level requirements. That old 'you only need two Es' idea comes from people doing BEd (mostly for primary, but not exclusively) and people got unconditional offers because after interview the University felt they would make excellent teachers - it isn't all about academic ability. Most of them got more than two Es though, I think you will find. Secondary teachers, in the main, have a degree in their subject and a PGCE (or equivalent) as this is better preparation for A level teaching, which is about academics. They will have had to get good enough A levels to do an academic degree at University, just like anyone else who goes.

FOr the record, I like my holidays, I feel they are a perk of the job. I do work in them, but on my own terms/to my own timetable, and that is priceless. I just want to be recognised as a well qualified professional who works hard at a worthwhile job. I don't think I'm special.

Unfortunately there are always people who think they know how to do your job unless you are something like a rocket scientist or surgeon. I am a manager in a project working with challenging families. Our staff either get the "oh I couldn't do your job" or people who think it is easy because all we do is tell people what they need to do which is "just common sense".

And managers get no appreciation at all. Even on this thread one of the teachers referred to managers as "b**tards".

I am a teacher. I get up at 5:45 each school day, get into school at 7:15, set up the classroom, photocopy and often have an early morning meeting at 8, followed by at least two times a week a parent coming in to ask why Timmy's lost sock hasn't been found, why Bella hasn't been moved up a reading stage or for me to discuss the action plan I'm putting in place for Tommy who can't sit still for a millisecond with his parents. I then talk through with my TA the day.
I then spend the next 7 hours non stop teaching, on my feet, running a lunch time club/extra spelling session/on lunch duty/in meetings. The kids leave at 3:30, I talk on average to 15 parents as I take my class out into the playground, but like in the mornings I often have Tilly's mum in to talk through Tilly's friendship problems, followed by Jack's mum to ask why he didn't eat all his packed lunch.. By the time they are gone it is 4, I tidy the classroom, I mark the days work which often takes a good two hours, I plan the next day. In teaching you are expected to plan every minute of each lesson. Often each ability group needs a different worksheet made, I tend to make at least one activity a day as well as having to make 3 children seperate tasks to do with my TA to cater for their needs.
I leave school at 6:30, get home and re-start working at 9:30, filling in assesment sheets, report writing, planning parents evening comments, marking, preparing, planning the swimming teams training which i volunteered to do extra, writing up my lesson observations of my NQT who I mentor, booking school trips or replying to emails from parents and staff. The list goes on.
Yes I get holidays but this half term I spend 3 of the 5 days off in school, and the other two I spent one working solidly at home.
I love my job, I don't do things half-heartedly I want my chidlren to progress and I want to put work into them because they deserve a good education but it is not easy. I don't earn heaps, but I don't moan its not enough. I know a lot of teachers who do a lot less, I balance this with 4 children and caring for my elderly parents.
Don't slag off teachers.

i envy my brother because when he describes what he does for a living, peoples' eyes glaze over with complete incomprehension and the conversation sort of ends I'd try to tell you what he does but i don't actually know

however, everyone has an opinion about teachers and everyone thinks they know exactly what the job entails....

Happymum, if you're working that hard you'll soon be unhappymum. Do you work in a very small school by any chance?

We've discussed whether staff should answer e-mails from parents at school and don't really want to go there! We did, however, agree that we would allocate one hour per week -only!- for answering them if we have to.

We don't let parents in in the morning either. What do you need early morning meetings? Why are you making so much for the children? Why don't you plan activities that don't need worksheets and plan some other form of differentiation? Your e-mail worried me! I think I work hard, but I certainly don't work that number of hours!

And 4 children and elderly parents????

teachers- you rule. Big hugs to the lot of yers. Teacha hatas don't know bollocks, is my profound and considered opinion

Fraidy, Interesting that you mention a small school.

I also work in a small school and, if I were completely full time, would work exactly the hours Happymum describes + Sundays. The 3 full-time teachers definitely do those hours.

As it is, because I teach every day but not all day every day (just over 0.7 of a normal timetable) I do work Sundays, but don't stay in school until 6.30 pm every day. Do do the 9.30 - midnight slot (well, 8.30 - 11 slot for me) every night ... and luckily only have 2 children!

ummm I don't work half as hard as happymum and I'm a teacher.

I'm in school by 8, do a bit of prep, have a cup of tea, maybe chat to a parent or 2, then teach through to 3.20 with play duty twice a week and a 45 minute slot each day of NCT. We have a staff meeting once a week until 4:15 and I might have an after school meeting with a parent once a fortnight. I usually leave between 4:15 and 4:30pm.

I do all my marking and lesson set up during the school day, and my planning takes a couple of hours a week outside this, or I can get a head start by doing it during the holidays.

Other than some planning, I don't do a thing during the holidays...

BUT I'm in a private school, not in the UK, with 15 in my class. No silly red tape, no bizarre new "initiatives".... its bliss

I read your post CupofBrownJoy-thinking she must be private-got to the bottom and you are! This is how it should be. I started teaching years ago and all older teachers agree it isn't the job it used to be.
I would be back like a shot if it had sensible hours.

I don't work as hard as Happymum either. I'm secondary, also independent. So although the teaching day is longer and there are evening and weekend duties, I have small classes and fewer "initiatives" - as CupofBrownJoy said.

When I started out as an NQT I did do the crazy hours. Now I've been teaching for 12 years, so am adjusting existing plans to fit new classes, rather than starting completely from scratch each time, the planning doesn't take so long. Also have to consider my own family, and try not to work between me getting home and boys going to bed unless I absolutely have to.

Which I will do next week, as reports are looming.

Fraidylady- i work in a state primary - not small at all- but am a deputy head with a class as well. The school is gradually reversing its poor ofsted and is now 'outstanding' but to maintain it we work bloody hard! The school is in a good area but because there are a huge number of private schools around here, those who come to the school tend to have difficult home lives or generally are from tricky backgrounds. We have one of those 'super heads' brought in to turn the school around.. its non-stop hard work to keep up the changes and standards but all the staff were brought in for the fact they are very committed and passionate. It has always been something I've wanted to do since I qualified aged 23 as a teacher, to work in a school where a real difference can be made and play a part in turning it around.
I have 4 children, but they are all at uni or older, except one who is in secondary school. Two live at home, two at uni. Care for my parents happens before/after school and weekends when I sort out all their care arrangements. Believe it or not I do have time for myself, Sundays especially and Friday nights. There are times im exhausted but most of the time I am very happy and quite a 'chilled' person (as DD would say) who doesn't stress the little things in life!.... So no worrying- I wouln't be unhappymum!!

CupOfBrownJoy- I used to do private, a lovely class of 16 little girls- it was bliss! But a lot pushier, fussier and more rude parents which drove me insane. I miss having no government targets and assesment forms for levels and policies, constant paperwork and being able to just do my job how I like and get the results my way.

Thank goodness for that! And good luck to you all!

Oh how I love this post! Reading this two days after I have finally decided to quit teaching, just reminds me I am making the right decision :) I am in the private sector and do not benefit from all the holidays (I get 5 weeks), but I can so relate to working 'til all hours of the evening. Teachers do not get enough credit - many of my friends who work in mainsteam schools are doing a lot of work in their summer holidays and as for CPD days, seriously, would you rather your child was educated by someone who does not develop themselves?! Children may be lovely to you as parents, but believe me there are quite a few that are very difficult, rude, annoying, stinky.....shall I go on? No....I'll just stick to the plan of finding a new job!