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Original poster

Teachers - you're 'avvin a laugh aintcha?

18 replies

mholdall · 04/11/2011 22:56

Kids recently had a week off - half term. They were back this week then, guess what - teacher training day. Seriously, what I want to know is this: is there ANY other job in the country where you get:

  • 13 paid weeks holiday a year
  • Good pay
  • Good pension (believe me, you do compared to people who do proper jobs in private sector - if you dont believe me, try it)
  • And yet you still need these extra days to do some training. Training for what, exactly? Seriously, for what???? And how am I, as a parent, supposed to factor childcare in here.
  • Oh, and you still do nothing but moan about pay, pensions etc
  • Rant over
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MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 05/11/2011 11:11

@hopefulgum

I'm guessing it is because my husband isn't a member of mumsnet. I now wish I'd had a copy of it, as it took some time to write. Bugger!

Did someone report me?

Hello hopefulgum. Your post was deleted because it contained a personal attack. And personal attacks break our Talk Guidelines.

Please feel free to repost the rest of your post. (If you want a reminder of what you said, please [email protected])

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 05/11/2011 11:12

@NorfolkNChance

Actually my rant deletion now makes the thread hard to read as several people have referred to it!

Again, NorfolkNChance, it was the personal attack at the end of your post that meant it had to go.

We'd love you to repost it - it was very moving - but with the PA taken out.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 05/11/2011 11:14

@roundtable

What on earth! Why has my post been deleted? I didn't swear or be rude. For goodness sake. Angry

Just to be clear. We don't delete swearing (unless it's truly beyond the pale). But we do delete personal attacks. Please do have a look at our Talk guidelines

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 05/11/2011 11:26

@NorfolkNChance

Helen is it possible to have it PM'd to me so I can take out the bit at the end?

Yes, will do. Smile

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 05/11/2011 11:28

@ChippingInAutumnLover

Helen - why not just put the posts back and delete the little bits you don't like.

However, if it's the OP reporting the posts, it's a little bit rich to expect them not to respond in kind isn't it?

We don't edit posts, Chipping. That way lies the road to ruin!

And it wasn't the OP who reported the posts. Another MNer drew our attention to the thread as a whole.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 05/11/2011 11:31

@Feenie

However, can I ask why the OP's post is allowed to stand? She/he's post is much more inflammatory and rude about a group of people than some of the posts that have been deleted.

I would also like to know the answer to that - perhaps MNHQ support the OP's view?

The deletions on this thread are ridiculously over-sensitive and out of proportion to the way threads are usually handled.

We've left the thread up, Feenie, because, personal attacks aside, we thought it had turned into a powerful discussion of the gap between the realities of teaching and the stereotyped assumptions made by some.

We are deleting personal attacks - and other posts that break our Guidelines - in exactly the same way we would on any other thread that's been reported to us.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 05/11/2011 11:32

@roundtable

Yes, if everyone's posts are going to be deleted, defending teachers against an unpleasant OP, then the whole thread should be deleted.

Why can a group of people on masse be attacked but it's not allowed the other way around in response to the orginal attack from the OP?

Because we don't allow personal attacks.

It's quite possible to demolish the premise put forward in an OP without attacking the OP personally.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 05/11/2011 11:50

@ChippingInAutumnLover

Helen - if a personal attack is made, but the person it is aimed at doesn't report it, why can't it be left? Fair enough, delete it if they ask it to be deleted, but I don't really think it's for other people to get it deleted?!

Because those ain't the rules, Chipping.

We don't do deletion by request only!

Once we're alerted to a thread, we do try to look at all the posts. It would be wrong to delete one personal attack but leave others.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 05/11/2011 11:51

@Feenie

Grin

NB: not saying it'll always pass the deletion test, though...

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 05/11/2011 11:58

@Feenie

NB: not saying it'll always pass the deletion test, though

Sounds like a challenge to me Grin

Oh Lord, what have I started? Grin

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 05/11/2011 12:16

@roundtable

Thank you Feenie Grin

Now will it cut it with MNHQ?

In all seriousness, roundtable, the whole point of MN is to allow people to have a robust debate - without too much moderation. But that doesn't work when people break our Guidelines by attacking others.

We don't mind anyone expressing strong opinions, as long as they show respect to others whose opinions might differ from theirs.

Much better to counter an opinion you believe to be wrong or ignorant with reasoned, intelligent argument than with a pat insult, no?

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 05/11/2011 12:22

@Feenie

Seriously - 'OP you are being a bit silly' is a personal attack????

Really?

Well maybe not.

But see my previous point: wouldn't it be better to have a debate, rather than trade insults? Or taunt MNHQ

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 05/11/2011 12:42

@roundtable

As another person mentioned before, this thread makes for bed time reading in relation to others I've seen left to stand before.

I didn't think what I wrote was really that bad but you're the moderator and there's no way for others to make their mind up as the post has been deleted.

Point noted.

Thank you, roundtable.

Take your point about others posts that have previously been left to stand. Perhaps those threads hadn't been brought to our attention?

Also, if you read this thread in Site Stuff , you'll see that we've agreed that AIBU threads do perhaps need a slightly more rigorous approach on the moderation front.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 05/11/2011 12:43

@Feenie

Sometimes, Helen. But sometimes the OP is so obnoxious in an attack on a group of people that all the reasoning in the world won't measure up to a succinct, ascerbic put-down.

Wank spanners does the job admirably.

Sadly, though, it breaks our Guidelines.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 05/11/2011 12:47

@LeBOF

When people express themselves like the OP, it has the unfortunate consequence of leading people to believe they are utter twatbadgers, even though this may be an unfair conclusion.

The point we're trying to make is that focusing on finding roundabout ways to insult/not insult/insinuate you're insulting without actually insulting the OP doesn't add to the debate or show the OP what you find to be wrong with her opinions.

It just derails the discussions/gets you deleted/stops me getting a badly needed cup of tea.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 05/11/2011 12:49

@NorfolkNChance

Ohhhhhiw I want the following to happen:

Enter HELEN, with Attendants

HELEN
Rebellious subjects, enemies to peace,
Profaners of this neighbour-stained steel,--
Will they not hear? What, ho! you women, you beasts,
That quench the fire of your pernicious rage
With purple fountains issuing from your veins,
On pain of torture, from those bloody hands
Throw your mistemper'd keyboards to the ground,
And hear the sentence of your moved princess.
Three MN brawls, bred of an airy word,
By thee, old OP, and Teachers,
Have thrice disturb'd the quiet of our boards,
And made MN's ancient citizens
Cast by their grave beseeming ornaments,
To wield old partisans, in hands as old,
Canker'd with peace, to part your canker'd hate:
If ever you disturb our boards again,
Your Usernames shall pay the forfeit of the peace.
For this time, all the rest depart away:
You OP; shall go along with me:
And, Teachers, come you this afternoon,
To know our further pleasure in this case,
To old Site Stuff, our common judgment-place.
Once more, on pain of banning, all women depart.

rofl. I was in a Greek play once at school. My speech was a bit like this.

I didn't have attendants though. Just a far-too-short tunic.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 05/11/2011 12:54

@SoupDragon

Personally I think this whole thread is now a bit pathetic with all the ridiculous deletions.

Unsurprisingly the OP has failed to acknowledge that she has completely failed to grasp that inset days come out of holidays and not teaching days.

I never understand why new posters deliberately start a thread which will cause anger and then refuse to listen to the replies and take on board that they have misunderstood.

Actually, that's not true, I do undertstand but am apparently not allowed to say it.

Hi Soupy. First off, just because we've deleted other people's posts, it doesn't mean we haven't taken a long, hard look at the OP.

Secondly, we left the thread up because we (well, I) was mightily moved by the powerful posts made by some teachers trying - as I said earlier on this thread - to contrast the realities of teaching with some people's stereotyped views of what teachers do/don't do.

But, obviously, if the thread continues to be more bunfight that discussion, then we will delete. Would be a shame to lose posts like Norfolk's though...

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 05/11/2011 13:13

@SoupDragon

Helen, I think you need to look at the option whereby personal attacks are edited out of a post where that post contains other comments. Replace it with {personal attack deleted} but leave rest of the post in place. Otherwise a thread makes no sense at all. Reposting it takes it out of correct order.

Obviously posts which simply say, for example, " is an ignorant twatbadger " can just be deleted.

Might be worth considering, Soupy, but we fear that a) we'd be spending all our time editing posts b) people might be more inclined to post PAs that way, dontchathink?

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