Teachers - you're 'avvin a laugh aintcha?

[mholdall]

Kids recently had a week off - half term. They were back this week then, guess what - teacher training day. Seriously, what I want to know is this: is there ANY other job in the country where you get:

• 13 paid weeks holiday a year
• Good pay
• Good pension (believe me, you do compared to people who do proper jobs in private sector - if you dont believe me, try it)
• And yet you still need these extra days to do some training. Training for what, exactly? Seriously, for what???? And how am I, as a parent, supposed to factor childcare in here.
• Oh, and you still do nothing but moan about pay, pensions etc
• Rant over

Some good work here.

I predict a riot in that case.
Verily.

I Couldn't teach if I was paid double the salary. I have teacher friends and I don't know how they do it and stay sane. It's not just the hours (and all those I know start work about 7.30/8 am, and bring work home) but the relentlessness of it. I know other careers can be tough, and I consider my job quite rigorous but at the end of the day if I'm not feeling 100% I can roll into the office at ten to 9, start the day with a coffee, reschedule a bit so I don't have to do so much face to face etc. No way would I want to face up to 150 or so different hormonal teenagers and deliver lessons to them even when I'm feeling 100%, god knows how you do it every day

Op- many posters have asked why you aren't a teacher yourself as you think its so cushy. I wonder whether you've tried and failed actually as you seem to have such a personal axe to grind

@roundtable

As another person mentioned before, this thread makes for bed time reading in relation to others I've seen left to stand before.

I didn't think what I wrote was really that bad but you're the moderator and there's no way for others to make their mind up as the post has been deleted.

Point noted.

Thank you, roundtable.

Take your point about others posts that have previously been left to stand. Perhaps those threads hadn't been brought to our attention?

Also, if you read this thread in Site Stuff , you'll see that we've agreed that AIBU threads do perhaps need a slightly more rigorous approach on the moderation front.

@Feenie

Sometimes, Helen. But sometimes the OP is so obnoxious in an attack on a group of people that all the reasoning in the world won't measure up to a succinct, ascerbic put-down.

Wank spanners does the job admirably.

Sadly, though, it breaks our Guidelines.

Ohhhhhiw I want the following to happen:

Enter HELEN, with Attendants

HELEN
Rebellious subjects, enemies to peace,
Profaners of this neighbour-stained steel,--
Will they not hear? What, ho! you women, you beasts,
That quench the fire of your pernicious rage
With purple fountains issuing from your veins,
On pain of torture, from those bloody hands
Throw your mistemper'd keyboards to the ground,
And hear the sentence of your moved princess.
Three MN brawls, bred of an airy word,
By thee, old OP, and Teachers,
Have thrice disturb'd the quiet of our boards,
And made MN's ancient citizens
Cast by their grave beseeming ornaments,
To wield old partisans, in hands as old,
Canker'd with peace, to part your canker'd hate:
If ever you disturb our boards again,
Your Usernames shall pay the forfeit of the peace.
For this time, all the rest depart away:
You OP; shall go along with me:
And, Teachers, come you this afternoon,
To know our further pleasure in this case,
To old Site Stuff, our common judgment-place.
Once more, on pain of banning, all women depart.

Well whenever the argument gets heated on Mumsnet the insults start flying. it is rather sad that some people cannot oppose an argument without making it personal, because I imagine it puts many people off, but there it is.

All i was trying to say is that there can be a disparity between what teachers do, which is valueable work, and how that work is perceived by lay people which results in sweeping generalisations of the genre the O.P. has made.

I have worked as a T.A. supporting teachers, and know they work hard. I have met brilliant teachers who don't get the credit they deserve (it's usually not what they're bothered about anyway) and some not so great. Two of my family members are teachers too.

But it is hard for working parents to deal with the long holidays in addition to the teacher training days. Posts like AbigailS prove these days are necessary, but I believe that parents would be more supportive of teachers if these were arranged at times that place parents in less difficulty regarding work and child care. I think teachers are depended on more by parents than any other public sector worker, and as such they increasingly want more consistancy in terms of availabilty etc. simply because of the pressures of modern living I suppose and the changes these have caused.

When teachers complain about their work to non-teachers, it doesn't inspire confidence or support from parents because they are leaving their children in their care sometmes for longer hours than they actually spend with them. It's not what they want to hear.

I used to work in a school where the Head would only employ teachers who had done other jobs. Not because teaching can't be hard work, but because he wanted teachers who had a realistic idea of what working in other jobs was like.

I know its not the same in all fields, but I'm not a teacher and most people I have ever worked with who care about their job put extra hours in and have only statutory holidays - 24 days a year.

I like my job and don't want to be a teacher, but I do think sometimes some teachers don't understand what many other jobs are like in terms of hours, work pace and pay.

Love it Norfolk!! You obviously didn't get 2 Es in your A' levels.

Also to Wank Spanners and Twat Badgers.

@LeBOF

When people express themselves like the OP, it has the unfortunate consequence of leading people to believe they are utter twatbadgers, even though this may be an unfair conclusion.

The point we're trying to make is that focusing on finding roundabout ways to insult/not insult/insinuate you're insulting without actually insulting the OP doesn't add to the debate or show the OP what you find to be wrong with her opinions.

It just derails the discussions/gets you deleted/stops me getting a badly needed cup of tea.

And just to say, in many other jobs you are very restricted as to when you can take annual leave and can be forced to take your 24 days at times of the year that don't suit. In one job I had our busiest time was during school holidays - working with young people - and so we were not allowed to take any time of during school holidays. That didn't stop the school going up the wall when I took my kids out for 1 weeks holiday as it was the only way we were going to get a family holiday.

@NorfolkNChance

Ohhhhhiw I want the following to happen:

Enter HELEN, with Attendants

HELEN
Rebellious subjects, enemies to peace,
Profaners of this neighbour-stained steel,--
Will they not hear? What, ho! you women, you beasts,
That quench the fire of your pernicious rage
With purple fountains issuing from your veins,
On pain of torture, from those bloody hands
Throw your mistemper'd keyboards to the ground,
And hear the sentence of your moved princess.
Three MN brawls, bred of an airy word,
By thee, old OP, and Teachers,
Have thrice disturb'd the quiet of our boards,
And made MN's ancient citizens
Cast by their grave beseeming ornaments,
To wield old partisans, in hands as old,
Canker'd with peace, to part your canker'd hate:
If ever you disturb our boards again,
Your Usernames shall pay the forfeit of the peace.
For this time, all the rest depart away:
You OP; shall go along with me:
And, Teachers, come you this afternoon,
To know our further pleasure in this case,
To old Site Stuff, our common judgment-place.
Once more, on pain of banning, all women depart.

rofl. I was in a Greek play once at school. My speech was a bit like this.

I didn't have attendants though. Just a far-too-short tunic.

Personally I think this whole thread is now a bit pathetic with all the ridiculous deletions.

Unsurprisingly the OP has failed to acknowledge that she has completely failed to grasp that inset days come out of holidays and not teaching days.

I never understand why new posters deliberately start a thread which will cause anger and then refuse to listen to the replies and take on board that they have misunderstood.

Actually, that's not true, I do undertstand but am apparently not allowed to say it.

As I've said several times, Lesley, I have done other jobs and, yes, it was hard work for long hours, for less pay than I make being a teacher and I only got statutory holidays.

However, teaching is still difficult aswell as other jobs. So I do understand what other jobs are like, but I am asking that people doing other jobs try to understand what teachers do too - it's a two way street.

Norfolk, that is just fabulous!

soverylucky - tbh I think it depends on the school and the teachers. Some teachers moan about the long hours and seem to have no idea that other people lots of extra hours like them and have less holiodays and not great pay. I don't mind people moaning as long as they understand that it is not just teachers jobs that are like this.

Twatbadger and wankspanner have duly been added to my mumsnet hall of fame

Well rather ironically, roundtable it was me that made that point

"When teachers complain about their work to non-teachers, it doesn't inspire confidence or support from parents because they are leaving their children in their care sometmes for longer hours than they actually spend with them. It's not what they want to hear"

I know! and we wouldn't be pointing out the negatives if we hadn't been told our jobs are easy by someone who obviously doesn't have a clue.

lifeissweet - I work with challenging families and have run a number of projects in schools working with the most difficult children/young people. So although I am not a teacher, I do have some understanding of what a teachers job is like.

@SoupDragon

Personally I think this whole thread is now a bit pathetic with all the ridiculous deletions.

Unsurprisingly the OP has failed to acknowledge that she has completely failed to grasp that inset days come out of holidays and not teaching days.

I never understand why new posters deliberately start a thread which will cause anger and then refuse to listen to the replies and take on board that they have misunderstood.

Actually, that's not true, I do undertstand but am apparently not allowed to say it.

Hi Soupy. First off, just because we've deleted other people's posts, it doesn't mean we haven't taken a long, hard look at the OP.

Secondly, we left the thread up because we (well, I) was mightily moved by the powerful posts made by some teachers trying - as I said earlier on this thread - to contrast the realities of teaching with some people's stereotyped views of what teachers do/don't do.

But, obviously, if the thread continues to be more bunfight that discussion, then we will delete. Would be a shame to lose posts like Norfolk's though...