Teachers - you're 'avvin a laugh aintcha?

[mholdall]

Kids recently had a week off - half term. They were back this week then, guess what - teacher training day. Seriously, what I want to know is this: is there ANY other job in the country where you get:

• 13 paid weeks holiday a year
• Good pay
• Good pension (believe me, you do compared to people who do proper jobs in private sector - if you dont believe me, try it)
• And yet you still need these extra days to do some training. Training for what, exactly? Seriously, for what???? And how am I, as a parent, supposed to factor childcare in here.
• Oh, and you still do nothing but moan about pay, pensions etc
• Rant over

I bet OP would be up in arms if her employers told her that 3 days of her holiday were going to be compulsary training days!!

Ooer. I've been deleted!

Is that because I have written a few home truths about the OP, or is it because I said she was a word beginning with T?

There is far worse language on this thread than mine.

mholdall I am not a teacher, have never been one and have no intention of being one. Why? Because I think it is one of the hardest jobs in the world. I think you need to familiarise yourself with the reality of teaching. It is not a cushy job. If you think it is so easy why don't you retrain to become a teacher or home educate your children.

In my job I can have drink when I want, eat when I want, go to the loo when I want, take my lunchbreak when I want, make and receive personal phonecalls at any time of day, swear when I want, leave my job at work when I go home and not have to spend evenings and weekends planning and marking. And before I had DD I could take my holidays when I wanted.

Mmmwwwwahahahahhaha! Just you wait :o And then come back and tell us about it.

"I can't wait to retrain as a teacher, it will improve my quality of life no end."

MoreBeta I think your 9-5 suggestion shows how little you understand how it works. I teach secondary and so have 13 different classes to teach every week. Even for classes in the same year group, the pace and level of work is different, so the planning load is large. I run after school activities 2 days per week which would leave me with 1 hour for planning before I "finish" for the night- not enough. I can't plan the next lesson too far in advance as I have to know how the class got on with the previous lesson first. During the days when the kids are on holiday and I'm doing my 9-5 (in your plan) I could re-do schemes of work and develop resources, but couldn't plan any lessons.

I am one of those teachers who loves her job. I do. It excites me and challenges me and I find it enormously rewarding. I'm in a very mixed rural school and we have our fair share of problems- mostly to do with lack of money in many students' homes. DH is a management consultant. We worked out that, on average, we work broadly similar hours across a year, even taking into account my holidays. I earn about 1/3 his salary. DH recognises that my job exhausts me, physically,mentally and sometimes emotionally too. His doesn't. He is of my holidays though. Swings and roundabouts.

I find this teacher bashing really uncomfortable.

All this talk about teachers having time off for training,but there is a large group of parents' who would,without a second thought,take 2/3 weeks out of term time to get a cheaper deal on a holiday,and no thought about "think about the children" then...which they always shout when teachers' are forced by inadequate governments to take industrial acion. Seems like saving a few quid to the Med doesn't count there.

Teachers' often go way beyond their duties on a regular basis for the children they teach. Only the other day I read a report in the press how teachers' are taking over the role of parents' in basic care,often staying with vulnerable students at school until 7pm for extra tuition,and even making sure they get dinner!

And let us not forget the murder of Philip Lawrence,who lost his life by stepping beyond his duties in order to protect one of his students.

Herethere...

If you see above, both Twinkly and I have described the good points of being a teacher and they far outweigh the bad ones - or we'd do something else!

You will also see that I have done the kind of work you do and had 25 days holiday a year and worked silly hours and weekends in that job too.

I find teaching more demanding because it is, by it's nature, unpredictable and relentless in a way that few other jobs are. It is physically tiring in a way that my old job was not.

When I was pregnant in my last job, I adjusted my office chair to support my back. I took tea breaks and sat by the toilet so could be sick when I needed to be in the early days.

Being pregnant this time round is killing me! I can't be sick without finding someone to mind the children. I have to do playground duty, I am on my feet for 90% of the day - crouching by children's tables, teaching PE, on playground duty.

I am not asking for people to feel sorry for me at all. I have said it several times and will say it again: I love my job. I love it and wouldn't do anything else.

However, what I never understood when I was doing my old job (less well paid, similarly silly hours, intellectually challenging..) is that teaching is every bit as hard. The difference here is that no one is accusing you of having an easy life doing what you do. People here are claiming that I do and I find that offensive and feel the need to defend myself.

What you describe sounds much like teaching MoreBeta, how does it differ?

twinkle whilst teachers have not overtly claimed to be "different"or "special" the old stories about how difficult it is to deal with pupils and parents come out time and time again as evidence of the difficulty of the job and/or thanklessness of the task.

Those situations are not exceptional. They occur in almost every aspect of paid employment that involves a people-facing role which provides a service to others. It's part of the job. Part of the skill set required to teach is to deal with those challenges. If someone doesn't like part of their job description, they (like me) can always choose to do something else. Anyone entering teaching believing they would avoid that sort of hassle and confrontation seems not to have grasped the facts of the job description.

God it makes me so pissed off that a select few on here see fit to run down a profession they know scant about. Have some respect. There used to be a time where teaching was a career you aspired to and people generally acknowledged you were doing a worthwhile job - seemingly no more. Shame on you all

hopefulgum Sat 05-Nov-11 10:39:12

Why has it been deleted? I am a bit confused, is it not the post where a teacher and her DH were just commenting on OP's post, with a different opinion to her but no rudness or nastiness at all? Did I miss something.

I'm guessing it is because my husband isn't a member of mumsnet. I now wish I'd had a copy of it, as it took some time to write. Bugger!

Did someone report me?

Towndon you're welcome to a week's work experience at my place any day. Cancel all plans (regardless of whether they happen to be special in any way - I have colleagues who've cancelled wedding dress fittings, missed relatives birthdays, missing friends weddings is a common occurence) if you have kids make sure childcare is on hand 24-7 and get used to having deadlines where everything is urgent and no sleep. I was better rested looking after my daughter as a newborn. My years maternity leave (not the same as teaching in anyway - I know!) was utopia.

It'll be a few years until I get there but I'll return with the warts and all account. And I bet it won't be half and sh*t as my current life. At present I can't even look forward to getting my weekend with any certainty, never mind a holiday every other month to break from the stress.

And I would like to ask beenbeta how he proposes the Government can afford to pay teachers for working an additional 5 weeks of the year in his bloody stupid hilarious scheme.

Herethereandeverywhere

I disagree. It is special. When you teach children (particularly in primary school) they are in your care for a year. You care for them and have relationships with them and give your all to watch them grow and develop. I can't think of another public-facing role short of social work or foster care where the relationship is so important. Yes, other service providers deal with awkward members of the public, but it will not have the same emotional impact as dealing with children and their parents when all you want is the best for them.

I am talking about parents in denial about their child's SEN, who refuse offers of extra support, children taken into care, anger issues which mean a child loses control and smashes up your classroom (comprehensively sometimes)...I could carry on.

It is not about confrontation. It is about caring and wanting to help despite the parents often working against you.

I am not complaining about it. I am purely pointing out that it is a reality and to suggest that it's not hard and isn't upsetting would be a lie. It's upsetting because I care. If i shrugged it off as 'just part of the job' I wouldn't be caring enough to do my job properly.

NinkyNonker - my suggestion was teaching finish at 3 pm so teachers get 2 hours until 5pm to mark and prepare work for the following day. The children would have sport (or drama or music or home work club) from 3 pm - 5.30 pm. The Govt would have to put a bit of extra resource in to cover that period as part of its healthy lifestyle initiatives.

EvilTwins - if you were teaching 9am - 3pm and marking 3pm - 5 pm you woudl not be expected to be doingafter school clubs as the children would be doing extra curricular activities (see above).

What I am describing is what many private schools do. Many private schools have had to adapt to provide wrap around 8 am - 5.30 pm teaching and activities because they know both parents are working to cover fees. State schools will need to do the same eventually and better that teaching unions engage in the debate about how that can be done fairly.

This is not about 'lazy teachers' but about making our society work better for the modern world.

On a website that is populated mainly by women, many of whom work or would like to work (if it were not for school hour constraints) I am not surprised this issue creates such a polarised view. It is probably the biggest issue for most WOHP. Schools shutting at 3.45 means many women are trapped at home. Simple as that. Changing the school day would relase so many women to be able to work if they wished.

I really don't think anyone is teacher bashing. No one is saying teachers don't do a worth while job, what they're saying is that the way holidays and training days are arranged makes things difficult for some working parents and it would be perhaps be better all round if adjustments were made to schedule of holidays and training days to bring them into line with current trends of 2 working parents in the home.

What on earth! Why has my post been deleted? I didn't swear or be rude. For goodness sake.

Mine has gone too, fair enough it was full of very naughty words!

winemakesmeclever why on earth are we supposed to doff our caps and reverentially pay our respect to people who are just doing their job? I appreciate lots of people do lots of good and useful jobs - anyone who takes pride in what they do is great.

I really don't see why we can't challenge or question the status quo regarding teachers and teaching

Actually my rant deletion now makes the thread hard to read as several people have referred to it!

I've never been deleted before. It would be worth it on this thread, however.
Bring it on!

morebeta What you are suggesting, then, would remove the most enjoyable parts of my job. I teach drama and the after school activity at the moment is the school play. Why would I want someone else to run that? What you are doing, with you 9-5 plan is removing the element of choice and creativity which many teachers love. If I had 3-5 every day for marking and planning I wouldn't be able to do some of the more creative bits of my job. DH gets pissed off with me for planning til 10 or 11 some evenings, but doesn't get that I'm enjoying it- I prefer to do my own thing, not just use online resources. Teaching children cannot be turned into a 9-5. It just can't. Oh, and where would you it necessary weekly meetings and parents evenings? What about writing reports? How could I run theatre trips? When would we perform the school play?

@hopefulgum

I'm guessing it is because my husband isn't a member of mumsnet. I now wish I'd had a copy of it, as it took some time to write. Bugger!

Did someone report me?

Hello hopefulgum. Your post was deleted because it contained a personal attack. And personal attacks break our Talk Guidelines.

Please feel free to repost the rest of your post. (If you want a reminder of what you said, please [email protected])