Teachers - you're 'avvin a laugh aintcha?

[mholdall]

Kids recently had a week off - half term. They were back this week then, guess what - teacher training day. Seriously, what I want to know is this: is there ANY other job in the country where you get:

• 13 paid weeks holiday a year
• Good pay
• Good pension (believe me, you do compared to people who do proper jobs in private sector - if you dont believe me, try it)
• And yet you still need these extra days to do some training. Training for what, exactly? Seriously, for what???? And how am I, as a parent, supposed to factor childcare in here.
• Oh, and you still do nothing but moan about pay, pensions etc
• Rant over

pipkins erm, you think the only time ice had to defend my profession an conditions is on MN? You're even more clueless than I first thought.

I think we have to look at it in perspective. There's no question that teachers have a very difficult job, and are fantastic at it.

They have problems to deal with every day, they work long hours, they are sometimes attacked and abused, they have to fit training and planning around their teaching work. They have to be a jack-of-all-trades, often dealing with things they never thought formed part of their job description. They are often exhausted and stressed but they do it because they love their job. They thoroughly deserve the 13 weeks holiday each year.

The problems occur because all of the above can be applied to any number of other professions - nursing springs to mind, paramedics, doctors, etc. All very stressful jobs with all the same issues. The difference being that they get much less holidays, maybe 4 or 5 weeks a year. Yes teachers absolutely deserve a break from their work, but they are pretty much the ONLY profession that get so much time each year where they don't have to go to work.

All these other people would probably give their right ear to have so much time off work. I know people say 'if you don't like it then change jobs' but it's not that simple is it? We all do the job we do for a reason.

We shouldn't give teachers such a hard time but we do it because we're jealous of the time off they get, simple as that. We're not jealous of the work they do, but too many people seem to push that aside and just see those holidays. It's not fair but it's just life. Don't feel you need to justify yourselves teachers but remember all those others in difficult jobs who get paid less and have less time off who just see random posts on FB from teachers celebrating about their 6weeks off work at the start of each summer.

I've*

erm...on 'teacher just want everyone to agree with them'...

Yes, we do, when what we are trying to get you to admit is that the majority of teachers work very hard. That is all!

...and actually, teachers are not a homogenous faceless mass - we have opinions of our own. In fact, some teacher at my school were discussing the structure of the school year the other day and there is a wide range of opinion. I am in favour of the 6 terms, two week breaks and short summer holidays, myself. Then I may actually get a week off between terms (one week to catch up on work - one week to actually relax) and there wouldn't be that dip in learning during the summer which seems to set some (not all) children back a step every year. Others strongly disagree with me.

Lifeissweet I too support the six term system, I think it would provide a much needed balance to the school year.

LOLing at accountancy being considered as demanding as medicine and teaching. OK, January can be a bit of a hassle with tax returns, but really.....

I also feel the need to say this again for anyone who has missed it...

THE SUMMER HOLIDAYS ARE NOT PAID

if you want another 6 weeks off a year, take that much unpaid leave and stretch the rest of the money you earn across the year so that you get paid in the summer, but don't get paid for the summer. That is what we do!

Good teachers do work hard, but my overall perception is that unlike other professions such as doctors, firemen etc what teachers actually do isn't always clearly transparent to parents.

From a parents point of view, school reaching only builds upon a foundation already put in place by the parent - of course i'm talking about decent parents here- who will already have taught their child to read and write, taught them the basics of maths, taught them lots of general knowledge. Teachers build on this, but then the parent sorts out homework too, puts in extra effort to help with exams like SATS e.t.c. may give added support to the school besides this, and may have to volunteer to accompany school outings due to staff shortages. School can spill over into home life alot, epecially when parents can now face fines for school related offences i.e, taking holiday without permission, truancy etc.

And a parent may have to do all this whilst working 9-5 themselves. So in my opinion I can understand why parents may have little sympathy when teachers announce an inset day bang after a 2 week break.

And while school may not be officially defined as childcare our economy is unfortuantely pretty much dependant on schools providing supervision of children for an average of 6 hours, so dependant that yes, it does now function as child care too.

Not saying teachers don't work hard, but parents do too, and school should start reflecting the modern world a bit more as well as provide more choice within the system.

I am a teacher ina challenging London comp. Although i never mention this or think about it day to day, the OP seems to think all teachers are thick so I will just mention that I have a degree from Oxford. The last couple of weeks thus is how long I have worked:
Last week was half term. I worked 9-6 Monday, 9-6 Tuesday, 9-1 Thursday, 9-12 Friday and 12-9 Sunday.
This week, went back to school.
7.30-6.30 at school on Monday and then 8-10 at home
7.30-6.30 on Tuesday
7.30-6.30 at school on Wednesday and 9-midnight at home.
7.30-4.30 at school on Thursday.
7.30-5 at school on Friday.
I plan to have a day off today and then will work at least 6 hours tomorrow, as I do every Sunday.
That is an average of 48 hours per week over two weeks, one of which was supposedly a holiday. More than someone working 9-6 Monday to Friday for two weeks. Until you get your facts right, OP, kindly STFU.

Even worse are university lecturers. I mean, the students are only there 24 weeks of the year and the lecturers have nothing to do for the other 28 weeks, right, so I think they should all be paid half of what other people get.

And I think they should be forced to have profit shares, bonuses and share options instead of those wonderful £15k a years pensions they enjoy at the end of it all.

*school teaching

I do have to defend the profession as someone has to

full sop sorry! I can't type when I'm annoyed.

full stop! aggggggrrrrr!

Shiney is not teachers who decide INSET days it is the LEA, you know office workers who don't actually teach.

I wish your scenario was the norm but in some areas sadly it isn't and we often find ourselves battling against parents rather than working with them because they don't give a stuff about what their children are doing in school.

I am a teacher and I have my 10 metre swimming badge and crochet CSE. Every one of the children I taught were able to make one of those bobble chicks with bits of left over wool and 2 circles of cardboard. If that's not giving something back, then I don't know what is.

shiney - I get that. Parenting is hard. I agree. Not all parents do the things you describe, though.

I can also only think of a handful of teachers at my school who aren't parents themselves, so it's not an either/or situation.

I, of course, understand that teacher training days are a nuisance. I don't think anyone would disagree. Teachers who are parents have the same issue - except that we have absolutely no chance of taking a day of annual leave to cover our own DC's INSET days.

The difficulty is that we get 8 days a year for training (I think). The majority of ours is spread out across evenings in term time, but sometimes we need a whole day to do something all in one go (restraint training and First Aid spring to mind). Not all schools can have this training at the same time. We are tied by when we can get external trainers in to do these things, so in a lot of ways, we are as helpless as the parents. We need the training, but we can't choose when it happens. I don't think we would disagree that it would be more convenient for all schools to have training days at the same time, but it is completely unfeasible.

Unicorny - I think I saw you on the Teaching Awards the other week. Congratulations.

I hate INSET days and new initiatives. Hundreds of new initiatives every year and no consistency on any aspect of anything.
I'd happily work 9-5 and have basic holidays like the rest of the universe seems to do if the Powers That Be would just let me get on with it.
I could use the same plans from 5 years ago instead of writing new ones weekly for a start. Parents could keep out of it too and stop clogging up my day. They could concentrate on raising their children properly and freeing the curriculum from all the social and personal care stuff that has been added to the academic side of things.

'what teachers actually do isn't always clearly transparent to parents.

From a parents point of view, school reaching only builds upon a foundation already put in place by the parent - of course i'm talking about decent parents here- who will already have taught their child to read and write, taught them the basics of maths, taught them lots of general knowledge. Teachers build on this...'

Well, that made me smile.

In my job I can have drink when I want, eat when I want, go to the loo when I want, take my lunchbreak when I want, make and receive personal phonecalls at any time of day, swear when I want, leave my job at work when I go home and not have to spend evenings and weekends planning and marking. And before I had DD I could take my holidays when I wanted.

Exactly. You don't have to put on your coat and go outside and have your drink in a the cold on playground duty, worry about getting to the loo when you want, not have a lunch break-just grab a sandwich and squeeze it into 10 minutes, never get to your own DCs sport's day, class assembly, explain to people that you do not have a 'work phone number' or not one that they can call and speak to you, do clubs in your own time for free (and then have parents complain if you have an emergency and have to cancel at the last moment). I could go on and on, ending with the fact that you have to take training days out of your holiday and then people like OP moan that you are taking a day out of the term.Teachers also find it difficult, their own DCs school is quite likely to have a different day when they are working. Training days are not a surprise they will bewith the term dateson a website.

With regards to changing jobs........ I have been a teacher since I left uni. That was 20 odd years ago. I have a degree in Agricultural Economics (and no, I don't know what it is either!). I am not qualified or experienced to do anything else.
Now, if I was younger and didn't have 2 young DCs and a husband and a house...... I'd think about jacking it all in and retraining. However I have a responsibility to my family and I am unable to risk our family. (The fact that teaching nearly sent me over the edge and risked my family is by the by)
My DS had terrible behaviour problems last academic year and was nearly excluded from school. He was in breakfast club from 7.45, which meant leaving home at 7.20, and went to after school club until about 5. We were rarely home before 6 as I then had to collect my DD from nursery and battle through traffic. Since I have gone part time and pick my DS up 4 days a week his behaviour has improved drastically. I finish work at lunchtime but don't leave school until 2.30 as I use that time to mark and prepare.
Thing is, I don't think I am hard done to, this is my life, this is my job and I know other people have it harder. HOWEVER I am pig sick of people who have NO IDEA how it really is moaning about me.
A poster earlier commented on holidays, I have not had a holiday outside the UK for about 8 years and all UK holidays are spent with family. We cannot afford the holiday time prices. DS is currently being assessed for ASD and his obsession is sharks and sea creatures and I would love to be able to take him to see such creatures in the wild but I can't!

Oh sod it, I can't be bothered to justify myself anymore..... I'm off to kick in the leaves with DD!

If anybody else says the summer holidays are not paid I will scream. Grow up ffs - teachers get a wage slip EVERY month of the year. Who puts the summer wage slips there - the bloody money fairies? The summer holidays ARE paid.
Teachers are martyrs to an alarming degree. They would have much more respect if they were honest about the fact that, generally speaking, they have a cushy number. I myself do an easy job. I get a good wage for what I do. I am honest and up front about that. Why, with teachers, is there always this great bloody sob story and obsession with keeping up the 'oh I work all hours god sends' story. I'm sorry but you dont. I know enough teachers to know that. It is fooling nobody.

The Summer holidays are not paid. The wage is divided over 12 months.