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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Teachers - you're 'avvin a laugh aintcha?

869 replies

mholdall · 04/11/2011 22:56

Kids recently had a week off - half term. They were back this week then, guess what - teacher training day. Seriously, what I want to know is this: is there ANY other job in the country where you get:

  • 13 paid weeks holiday a year
  • Good pay
  • Good pension (believe me, you do compared to people who do proper jobs in private sector - if you dont believe me, try it)
  • And yet you still need these extra days to do some training. Training for what, exactly? Seriously, for what???? And how am I, as a parent, supposed to factor childcare in here.
  • Oh, and you still do nothing but moan about pay, pensions etc
  • Rant over
OP posts:
NinkyNonker · 05/11/2011 08:29

And Trois, I just saw your posts about the Dartford Academies... Shock

sunshineandbooks · 05/11/2011 08:30

Though possibly Cameron could ask for parent volunteers as part of the Big Society. Wink

Who'd all have to have CRB checks...

I know it's never going to happen, and my sympathy is definitely with the teachers on this thread, but I can dream of a solution that is better for everyone, teachers included. Smile

VictorianIce · 05/11/2011 08:34

BertNErnie
"Ummmmmmm can you please show me the teacher who swans out with the children at 3:15!? because I certainly don't! I am in school from between 7:30 and 8:00am and 4 out of 5 nights a week leave between 5:00 and 6:00om. On the night I run away 'early', it's not before 4:45pm. It is misconceptions such as yours which give us teachers a bad name.

I also work during each school holiday. Admittedly not all day every day but I definitely work at least 2 full days during a week half term and at least 1.5 weeks during the summer holiday.

Maybe some of the posters should do their research properly before commenting on things they know nothing about? Speculation is a nasty thing."

I take it you missed the sarcasm then? Shoul I have popped in a winky face to help you out?
I'm all too familiar with the working habits of teachers, thanks.

NinkyNonker · 05/11/2011 08:34

Interestingly I don't really believe I 'had it' any harder as a teacher, but is is pretty much the only profession so widely ridiculed and criticised. As such people come on to point out it is hard, challenging etc...that doesn't mean that they think they have the hardest job etc just that they want some acknowledgement that yes, it is hard job and they do work hard. As everyone believes about themselves.

exoticfruits · 05/11/2011 08:34

If you think it is so wonderful you do the job! I loved the classroom but I wanted a life. I would also like holidays to be holidays. I am not doing it. Training days come out of the holidays not the term.

pipkins1968 · 05/11/2011 08:35

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exoticfruits · 05/11/2011 08:36

Sorry-I mean I am not teaching any longer. I don't mind working hard in a job but I would like a boundry and to be able to leave the building and stop work.

lockets · 05/11/2011 08:37

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Megatron · 05/11/2011 08:37

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VictorianIce · 05/11/2011 08:38

Pipkins, I would hazard a guess that NorfolkNChance loves her job, but as she said, has had a bad week. Also, I think it's important for people to recognise that 'hours in work' are nto the be-all and end-all of a job's demands. Teaching has huge emotional demands in addition to the time needed to do a good job.

backwardpossom · 05/11/2011 08:38

pipkins I don't think she said she didn't enjoy it? In fact, she said she gets to work with the most amazing people in the world (teenagers). I suspect that's what keeps her in the job.

And the holidays.

SoupDragon · 05/11/2011 08:40

Sunshine, you want HW and extra PE supervised by people with no training? Confused

pipkins1968 · 05/11/2011 08:41

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roundtable · 05/11/2011 08:44

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha... that's me laughing all the way to the bank Grin

I love these threads, why do people try to educate such twits?!

I'm convinced two posters in particular are professional moaners, what a barrel of laughs they must be in RL!

Lifeissweet · 05/11/2011 08:44

Ok - I have bitten my tongue enough and, although I know this will fall on deaf ears because some people are determined to see teachers as a bunch of whinging part-timers who exist to make their lives difficult, but I feel the need to respond.

After I graduated, (good degree, RG university) I worked for an international, corporate PR . I worked extremely long hours as the nature of the business meant I had to be at work when the clients in the States were at work. It was demanding and stressful. I didn't earn very much to start with and earned every penny several times over. I can clearly remember having a conversation, during a particularly stressful time, about how my teacher friends (who were all earning more than me) had no idea what the real world was like; about how their jobs are no harder than anyone else's so why don't they just get over themselves...Blush

Fast forward a few years and I applied to do a Primary PGCE. The course was oversubscribed and getting a place was really, really hard. Only the academic high achievers made it. Once I got the place I endured the toughest year of my life. Out of 22 on my course, 7 dropped out before the end. Intense is not the word. When we started, the Course Director told us in no uncertain terms that for that year and our NQT year to follow, sleep would be a rare luxury and we would be teachers first and people second. She was not wrong.

Now I am 5 years into my career and I love it, but I can honestly say that I never understood before how much a good teacher has to put in. When I say that, I don't only mean in terms of time, but also emotional and physical energy. During term time, you are a teacher. It is all-consuming. My DS hardly sees me. I have never been to his Christmas plays or Sports Days. I look forward to spending our holidays together, because it's the only time I get to be Mum.

I had two months off last year through stress. I work in an extremely challenging inner city school and some of the children's home lives make me want to weep on a daily basis. I have been attacked regularly - by both children and parents - verbally and physically. There are problems with drugs, violence and neglect and the child protection log is onto it's second volume since September. I don't know what you would call real life, but I certainly do not live in a bubble.

I am a social worker, administrator, counsellor, budget manager, IT technician (honestly - that is part of my role - I have to maintain all IT equipment in the school and train the staff on software. The school can't afford to hire someone in to do this!), care assistant, furniture mover, Sports coach, choir leader, Mural artist (see my displays!), Website designer....and...well....educator when I get the chance. I have never known a job like it for the bewildering range of skills required.

So leave us alone. I'm telling you, as someone who has worked on both sides, you don't understand what it is like. You can't possibly.

VictorianIce · 05/11/2011 08:45

That's not the whole job though.
And people do jobs which have much worse scenarios to deal with on a daily basis, and still have satisfaction from their work. If we followed that logic, then there would be no police officers, no paramedics, no doctors or nurses etc etc.
In fact,people would only do jobs involving daisy-chains, or trampolines. Or cake. :)

NinkyNonker · 05/11/2011 08:47

Exactly Pipkins. Acknowledging that the profession (which is what it is) is important, challenging and heart breaking at times is really important and that is what many on here haven't done.

Besides, people would be well advised not to piss teachers off or they'll all leave and shock horror, they might have to do it.

pipkins1968 · 05/11/2011 08:47

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kslatts · 05/11/2011 08:48

Teachers pay is not particulary good compared to the private sector and lots of teachers work extra in the holidays and evenings.

I am not a teacher, but would guess that training days are to keep knowledge up to date, which is also pretty standard in the private sector. Most jobs include training or development opportunities throughout the year.

lockets · 05/11/2011 08:50

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NinkyNonker · 05/11/2011 08:52

Teachers can't win in your eyes can they Pipkin? Perhaps they should just flagellate themselves in front of you merely for existing as you seem determined to find criticism either way.

sunshineandbooks · 05/11/2011 08:54

SoupDragon - obviously I'd like them to have some brief training, but most parents don't have training to supervise homework or any physical activities they do with their children. We're not talking about teaching here (which should be done by teachers), but wrap-around care that can be used to fulfil the spillover from schools that normally needs to be done at home (even though with many parents working full-time, homework and extra-curricular stuff means that the child is not getting enough sleep by the time it's all done in the evening).

I think things will change in the future. The restructuring of the term timetable shows that there is already recognition that the school year isn't reflecting the needs of society. That's not just my opinion. I don't think it will be done with anywhere near the funding or respect it requires though, sadly. Sad

However, I like to think about it and discuss solutions, because all anyone does by saying "this is crap" or "that won't work" is demoralise things for everyone - teachers and parents included.

MrsDistinctlyMintyMonetarism · 05/11/2011 08:54

I don't know what it's like at Echt's school, but we are also in Australia at the moment, and their school system is quite different to the UK.

School is from 8.45 to 2.50. 4 terms of 11 weeks with the Christmas holidays being the long one. We finish on Dec 9th until the 21st Jan.

Long service leave is common here, as are teachers taking holidays during termtime. DC start here in QLD the year they turn 6. There is no free pre-school equivalent.

After and before school care is paid for at the rate of 30 pounds per day (8am until school - after school until 5pm). Holiday clubs are 50 pounds per day.

This is all primary btw. I don't have dc of secondary age so couldn't comment.

OTOH parents don't seem to bitch about teachers as much here (except for the term time hols!), but then there is no Ofsted equivalent and teachers are not judged on their teaching except for tests in year 3 and 6(?).

I think what I'm trying to say in a very waffly way (it's been a very long day) is that there is no panacea. Except possibly for boarding school. Grin

Lifeissweet · 05/11/2011 08:58

No, Pipkins, as it happens, I really don't think that's ok at all.

My marriage collapsed during my NQT year because of the strain. It is not ok.

My DS coming second is not ok, but it is the reality of the situation and, as a single parent, whose Head Teacher says he can not offer me a part time post because he can't (or won't) find someone to job share with me, I don't have any choice but to work full time - which in teaching means full time and a half.

My own DS is well loved and well cared for. Just because I don't get to spend lots of time with him in term time does not mean he's neglected. He gets my full attention in the holidays, the time I get with him at weekends is valuable, and he has loving Grandparents around to fill in the gaps. If I felt he was missing out then I'd do something else. I still read with him every night and help him with his homework.

However, I love the children I teach too and they often don't have that kind of support at home. Who is going to put them first if I don't? It is a choice I have made and I know that may be hard to understand, but it makes sense to me.

NorfolkNChance · 05/11/2011 08:59

I do it because I do love it.

Yes as VI said I have had an extremely bad week (she knows me in RL and so knows the details).

I also do it because I am one of many who will stand up for these children when others let them down. It's like that bit at the beginning of Educating Essex where Mr Drew says " you will never find people so patient and tolerant as we are for the rest if your life"

Nah only kidding I'm just in it for the holidays and my gold played pension Wink

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