to be completely shocked and disgusted at the leaflet I've just been given by my mw???

[mummylovesnancy]

This leaflet, titled 'Raised BMI in Pregnancy' was passed on to me by my midwife at my booking in appointment yesterday. Along with the words 'You can't have a home birth, you probably won't deliver naturally and you'll be given consultant led care.'
I'm 28, I have 2 PERFECTLY healthy children who both have perfect height to weight ratios, eat well, are active and are generally normal children. I weigh 13st and I'm 5'2 which puts me in the 'obese' catagory according to the good ol' BMI index of wonder. I have been roughly this weight and exactly this height for all of my adult life. I am overweight, I accept that, but what I don't accept is being told to read this sodding leaflet which tells me, among various other little pearlers, that:
*I will have raised blood pressure. (Not 'I may', 'I WILL')
*I will be prone to urinary tract infections. (never had one in my life!)
*'Bigger Ladies' (exact wordage) get more blood clots. (Dumb Fuck)
*Examinations will be difficult. (Why? Because you have to part all my layers of fat to get to my vag?! How fucking degrading)
*I will have restricted mobilisation. (Will I? Because I don't now, will it automatically come with being fat and preggers?)
*Putting in a drip will be difficult. (yeah because my hands are so freaking chubby.)
*Breastfeeding will be challenging (I've managed it with two babies, now because you've changed your guidelines I think I might struggle.)
And my favourite one yet:
*The risk of stillbirth or your baby dying in the first 28 days is increased in 'larger ladies' (Thanks for that one, nhs, I just had a misscarriage 8 weeks ago. Was it because I'm fat?)

It also mentions on about 7 occasions that I may want an epidural. Is that to keep me quiet?! It also offers to refer me to a dietician and a counsellor.

I have been overweight (or a larger or bigger lady, as the nhs prefers) and given birth naturally twice with absolutely no complications and one of them was a home birth. I can't believe I have to read all this shit. The idiot who wrote this doesn't even know how to place an apostrophe or comma ffs!

Does anyone agree with me that this is a disgusting, degrading, scare mongering piece of shit or am I being an unreasonable pregnant wreck??

I wouldn't dare decide how much someone should eat, thunder - but I suppose I am making a subjective judgement that a whole pack of jaffa cakes is 'too much' and equally subjectively, that it crosses the line into greed. And that someone eating them, on that occasion, was greedy (assuming they were not in the grip of some uncontrollable urge).

So you got me there, bang to rights :)

Ditziness I'm really sorry to hear that they treated you like that.

And yes, that sort of leaflet could easily kick a pregnant woman back into disordered eating if she'd had a problem before. It's dangerous.

No fraid i don't tiktok, but i remember being given it. My recollection is that although the OP has perhaps colourfully remebered some of the "wills" and " you are of risk ofs" the content was the same. and the effect in reading it is the same.

Nice to see you btw tiktok, you gave me some great breastfeeding advice (non obesity related) many moons and name changes ago! thank you x
I fed my DS till he self weaned at 18 months with my high BMI despite that leaflet telling me that breastfeeding would be difficult! hurrah!

I imagine the discussion has moved on from the first post, but thought I'd mention that putting in a drip or taking blood from overweight people can be more difficult.

That's kind of you, ditziness :)

thunder, sorry if you felt suggesting an eating disorder was insulting - not sure why it would be insulting. It's been part of the debate, I thought, who has one/ who's in denial/who might be plain greedy.

I'm certainly not in the least insulted by you suggesting I have a fucked up relationship with food.

For the record, I don't :)

Mmmmmm, Jaffa cakes

I can't see anywhere that the op was told she'd need a
Cesearean.

letitwork - I think if you were hungry you'd be allowed a whole pack without it being greedy. If needs must...

Why don't you just apologise for being insulting tiktok. What you said there isn't an apology.

The debate isn't actually about the people here, it's about screwed up attitudes to weight and the harmful results that can lead to. Lots of people have tried to make it personal. That doesn't mean that's how that's how the discussion should go though or that it's reasonable for you to start claiming I'm either greedy or have an eating disorder. You're just being rude when you do that.

She has apologised. The word "sorry" is a clue.

that was said to me hairy, not the OP

I was told that larger women usually didn't cope so well with labour and are more likely to need a caeserian.

www.esht.nhs.uk/patient-and-visitor/services/leaflets/?entryid149=303640&char=I this isn't the leaflet I was given, it was laid out and written differently, but the info seems similar. I guess different health boards will write their own from the same basic info. If you look on page three it has caeserian as one of the risks in childbirth.

I agree - it wasn't much of an apology, true enough.

I don't willingly 'insult' people and was surprised that it was taken as an 'insult'.

I genuinely apologise now - I misjudged the effect suggesting an eating disorder or greed would have had on you, and I am sorry.

Just because I wouldn't have felt insulted in the least, should not have affected my judgment.

ditz, that leaflet was linked to below, and it is (IMO) a good one.

The info is accurate and the tone is fairly neutral ie not judgemental. It prepares women for the different sort of care and outcomes they may experience.

and for the record, that leaflet is better written than the one i was given , which was far shorter, more bullet pointy without the paragraphs and sentences that qualify and explain the statements.

I still think though to even give that leaflet alone without a person centred conversation between the midwive and pregnant woman discussing that individual case and offering any support if necessary is wrong

Ditziness

'So therefore OP, Obesity a physical and medical condition that has real medical consequences, has a physchological cause? (obv not in 100% of cases, before people start to say that they are fat and not mental ;-) )'

Exactly. I do agree with all of that, and I still think the most constructive thing the OP could do is to rewrite the leaflet (which was badly written from anyone's point of view) and send it to the hospital with a cover letter.

It's a really important question, though, what to do about obesity. I think a discussion like this is useful, because in real life it's hard to have a conversation with anyone about their relationship to food. It's quite taboo and people avoid it.

at 'heroic' biscuit eating!

In what world does NOT thinking it is ok to eat a whole pack of biscuits mean you have a fucked up relationship with food?!

Perhaps we also have differing opinions on WHY people are more obese these days. I dont think it is always because people have mental health disorders or a messed up attitude to food. I think it is because these days we have so much food easily available to us (a lot of it rubbish) and we do a hell of a lot less excercise. If I want a pack of Jaffa Cakes, I dont have to go out and buy the ingredients and make them. Hell I can just drive to the shop and buy them and eat the whole pack! And I wont be doing much excercise the next day to burn it off as I will be driving to work and sitting at my desk all day (just an example but you get the idea).

I dont see how saying to people 'weight doesnt matter' will help the situation. Weight does matter - if you are overweight then you are likely to have more health problems. Why do people find this so hard to understand?

So is the whole point that people should ignore the fact that an obese woman is likely to have problems in pregnancy and they shouldn't be warned? Would it be acceptable if it was better, and more sensitively, written?

People are getting fattter. When I went to Canada in 1980s I was struck by the size of the people-many were obese -and the food portions were ridiculously large. I wouldn't find it odd now because it is the same in UK.

Oh and more andecdotal evidence from me:

I am a pretty slim and fit person. I was in labour for 36 hours as my DS was well and truly stuck. I was exhausted by the time it got to the pushing stage (after the induction drip to speed things along), but still somehow managed to push for 2 and a half hours. He still wasnt coming out but I had pushed him far enough that once his head was turned with forceps he came out within a couple of pushes. I was told that if I hadnt pushed for that long before the forcpes, he wouldnt have been down far enough and it would have been a caesarian all the way.

Now Im not looking for any medals here , but I really believe that if I had been overweight and not very fit, there is no way I would have been able to push for that long and it would have been inevitable that I would have a caesarian.

Yes I remember my parents going to the USA in 1980 and my mum had never seen a morbidly obese person before then, she was 40 by then.

I was upset to be told that I would have to attend a weight management clinic during my pregnancy just because of my current BMI (.7 over the cut off minimum!) they should take into account all other factors too. I felt rubbish after that appointment and went off eating for a while which was probably worse for my baby than my slightly wobbly belly!

it really is scary but what do we do about it? The UK does seem to have more of a problem than much of the rest of Europe, think Greece is the 'fattest' european nation but we are probably not far behind them. It's the young children now though, what do we do to help them as it seems to be starting younger and younger. Someone seemed shocked/surprised at some kids having sweets or/and crisps every day - I'd say this is quite normal. My kids probably have some kind of a treat every day whether it's pudding at school or biscuits or something at home. Looking back we probably did as well all those years ago.

Exotic fruit- yes! As I said, that leaflet isn't the one I got, it's better written and a think it's probably OK, if accompanied by a proper individual focused chat.

And samstown. I was four stone overweight when pregnant with my first, 6 stone by the time if delivery. 48 hour labour, no pain relief and two hours pushing, non instrumental delivery with no tears. No medal required either, just an anecdote to counter yours and your insulting assumptions

Is anyone going to answer my question-should it just be ignored that the pregnant woman is obese? Or would it be OK if written in a more sensitive manner?

Sorry ditz-cross posted and you did answer-thanks.